Episode Transcript
There is a reckoning at this time where you say, where have I been putting my energy and effort, and where do I want to put those precious resources now? What stamp would you want to put on the world? What would you want to achieve? So I think it's really exciting to think about what this could mean for our organizations. What if all of our businesses were more menopause friendly? What if we allowed women to kind of take flight at a time when they really can, and they have so much experience and expertise to bring to the table?
Welcome to This is Perimenopause, the podcast where we delve into the transformative journey of perimenopause and beyond. I'm one of your hosts, Michelle. And I'm your other host, Michelle. And we know firsthand how confusing, overwhelming, and downright lonely this phase of life can be. Join us as we share real life stories and expert advice to help you navigate this journey and advocate for your best health. We used to think menopause signaled an end, but really, it's just the beginning.
Mikelle
Today, we wanna take a moment to thank our sponsor who's helping make this podcast possible, and we're genuinely excited to share this with you. Alright. Let's get real about GSM, those genital urinary symptoms that can hit you like a truck in perimenopause. We're talking vaginas that feel like the Sahara Desert, the kind of itching that makes you want to crawl out of your skin, and burning that turns basic activities into actual torture. When it hit me, I was literally questioning my sanity.
Mchelle
Same. Same. I had to break up with my spin bike because my Volvo was basically staging revolts. But then Iris came into my life and, can I say, game changer? And, oh my god, they're lubricant?
Mikelle
Wow. Right. Thank you, Dolores Fernandez. She's the amazing naturopath who created these products without the nasty additives that can turn your bits into a five alarm fire.
Michelle
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Mikelle
Because life's too short for an angry vulva and vagina.
Mikelle
Are you a high performing professional suddenly finding yourself struggling with confidence? Forgetting words in important meetings? Or maybe you're dealing with anxiety for the first time in your career. If you're wondering what's happening to your usually rock solid executive presence, you're not alone. And this episode might just change everything. Today, we're thrilled to welcome not one, but two remarkable women who are changing the game for midlife professionals. Meet Lauren Glaser and Salima Valgi, executive coaches whose perimenopause journeys led them to a startling discovery. Women at the peak of their careers were being derailed by menopause symptoms, often leaving the workforce entirely. Together, they have created empower, a groundbreaking platform that's helping women stay in the game and thrive during the menopause transition. From their own menopausal stories to the insights they've gained coaching countless women, Lauren and Salima bring wisdom, practical tools, and a fresh perspective on what is possible during this stage of life. This conversation is a game changer for any woman wondering how to maintain her edge while navigating this life transition.
Speaker 2
Welcome to the show. Thank
Speaker 3
you. We're so excited to be here.
Speaker 2
Oh my goodness. We're so excited to have you. We're here today to talk about menopause in the workplace and the exciting new mPower platform. So before we get into what mPower is, could you please each share your personal stories that led you to this partnership?
Speaker 4
Yeah. So I can start. I think for both of us, it started with our own personal journeys in menopause. I know for me in twenty twenty, I had a partial hysterectomy. My doctor and I, we talked about, hey. Will this put me into early menopause? And she's like, maybe. Probably not. Didn't give me any, things to look for. And about a year and a half later, all of a sudden, I'm having dinner with some girlfriends, and I'm telling you know, I'm saying, oh my god. I am having anxiety like I've never had before. I cannot sleep. I am really having a lot of brain fog, really struggling to show up for my own business. And I said, I don't know understand what's going on. And she looked at me, she's like, oh, this sounds like you have perimenopause. And so that was my first, like, moment of, like, could this be? Right. Yeah. So it's our it starts with my own personal journey. And then, Lauren, you can talk about what your journey was like.
Speaker 0
Sure. So so, you know, my story is similar yet completely different because all of our stories are unique. Right? So, I also had a surgical menopause. This was a couple years after I had my second child. And I knew they were putting me on hormones, and I knew they were going to do that for a period of time. And then I would go off of them because it was due to a, you know, a marker for for cancer, which, like, we definitely don't wanna have. But no one talked to me. I'm like, I barely got any information about how to deal with it. I went to work four days afterwards.
Speaker 2
Oh my gosh. Like, I don't know what
Speaker 0
I was thinking. Like, I just I no one really gave me any sense of what the implications were going to be. And so as I began to ratchet down from the hormone replacement therapy and began to experience symptoms I didn't realize in the same way what was going on. And I had a huge, huge job at the time. Like, my biggest job ever. Right? Because when we're in perimenopause at thirty five to fifty five, we're at the height of our career, And I was struggling. I was struggling harder than I had ever struggled, and it was so confusing. It was confounding to me. You know? And it wasn't until I started putting the pieces together and realizing, oh, wow. Maybe this is I mean, I don't know. I I was talking about it to anyone and everyone who would listen to me about it and was thinking about how do I how do I get this off the ground so that other women don't have to go through what I went through, especially in the workplace, especially
Speaker 4
at a
Speaker 0
time in their lives when they're supposed to be successful. And a friend of mine, who is also a friend of Salima, said, you have to talk to Salima.
Speaker 2
And so, sorry, did you leave your job?
Speaker 0
You know, it's hard. Right? Like, I could say I left my job because of my symptoms or I got laid off because of my symptom. I don't know. Like, we'll never actually know. And so when you think about the statistics of one in ten women leaving the workforce because of their perimenopause symptoms, like, isn't it more and they just don't know?
Speaker 2
Absolutely. It is.
Speaker 0
I was able to start my own business. I was able to partner with Salima even in the height of this perimenopausal swirl once I knew about it and once I knew what was happening to me and when I had support.
Speaker 2
I love it. I love it. And so you came together through a friend, which is amazing, and you brought, you created this, is a platform? Is it a platform? Yeah. Called and it's and it's and for the listeners who can't see the word, it's empower m and then the word power, but it sounds like it's kind of a deliberate play on the word empower as well. Am I just reading into that or are you is that why am I picking up what you were putting down?
Speaker 0
Bingo. On the nose.
Speaker 2
And and so what exactly is Empower?
Speaker 4
Yeah. So we, like to say it is a platform, and it's designed to help women to empower them to thrive and through menopause, perimenopause at work. Ultimately, what we wanna do is to get women to feel their confident selves again and so that they're uninterrupted in their careers. We've seen a lot of this interruption and so we created this platform so that they have community, they have access to knowledge, and they have access to tools that will help them to navigate. Unfortunately, it's not one magic thing. There's a multitude of things and it's time. A lot of it is just time and trial and error, and so it's really giving them this platform in which to choose their journey that's right for them.
Speaker 0
The platform includes the program, which is sort of was the core of the offering at the beginning, which is a, you know, small group coaching program for women. They could be in the same organization or in multiple organizations coming together and creating a safe place place to really explore the topic and get them together and begin to learn tools and strategies and share tools and strategies and and envision a future that is not hindered by perimenopause and menopause. And then we launched our menopositivity keynote, which actually we feel like, has had a lot of great response because it's sort of a a a just a a small step into the world. Right? Like, how do we begin to, in a workplace, talk about menopause and perimenopause? How do we open the door to that conversation? And so to have Salima and me come in and have a conversation about what is it and how does it happen and why do we need to talk about it at work, you know, just begin to normalize it and to bring it to light in the organization. People have just had these huge of, oh, I'm not alone. I'm not alone. And and allies have had of, oh, I can help. And so it's just been really gratifying. And then, of course, we do our one on one coaching, which, you know, coaching in and of itself is how do you get past barriers to achieve the things you want to achieve. And if menopause or perimenopause is one of your barriers, we can work with you on that very specifically and and intimately.
Speaker 2
That's amazing. Now do I have to be a member of like, do I have to be working at one of the organizations in order to take part in this program or it's open to anyone? I can just go to your website which we'll link to in the show notes and I can sign up?
Speaker 4
Yeah. So we have two two ways and, like, when we're offering the group program, we're either going to organizations and offering the program for for, the women in their organizations, but we also offer a cohort for anybody, you know, in any organization that wants to join. Some women and the reason why we did that is that some women don't want their employees to know that they're going through this.
Speaker 2
Fair.
Speaker 4
And so we're giving them that safe space to be able to do that themselves.
Speaker 2
We've actually had some people come on the show and say, like, I don't want to talk about menopause because it just gives them one more reason to discount me. Right? Like it and so that's a fair statement although it is becoming more commonplace and we've had also a lot of guests on the show that are like we're in there. We're talking about it. People are so receptive and amazing, but it is like I I can see that that might be a roadblock.
Speaker 4
Yeah. You're so right. But, you know, we like to say it's like we are now having conversations about race. We're having conversation about neurodiversity. We're having conversations about all, accessibility. And so we're like, we just need to add menopause into that toolbox. It's the same tools for the organization. It's the same openness that we're looking for and seeking. And so, you know, part of this work is to really break down that stigma that exists. And one of the ways to do that is to say, well, you're already talking about all these other topics. Mhmm. So talking about women's and we talk about women pregnancy. We talk about infertility. And so this is just the next place. And so it's just a really natural evolution where we're moving towards. This isn't something really provocative in our minds that we see, and that's how we begin that conversation.
Speaker 0
And it's such a a North American sort of mentality around it, this, like, the shame that shall not be mentioned. Let's all hide in the shadows and not talk about our perimenopause and just go change the sheets because we've swept through them again. Right? Like, this is sort of how we we exist, and I think, you know, it's very much connected with an ageism that exists in our culture and society. Right? So we don't wanna give anyone a reason to think that we might be over the hill. Right? But a, man of our age who is also going through something called andropause, which is a hormonal change in in his system, like, no one's having problems with that. No one's talking about maybe he shouldn't be the CEO. So, again, it's normalizing. It's bringing it into the conversation. And that bravery doesn't start with, you know, an announcement on the company Slack channel. Right? Like, there are ways to sort of ease in to the conversation, and we're trying to, you know, again, with the keynote, open doors. Maybe it starts with the women's employee resource group, but then it expands out. Maybe there's, you know, ways to get the allies involved. So it's not just women talking about women's issues. It's everyone talking about women's issues.
Speaker 2
Well, it's it's it's amazing to me how many men when they hear what we're doing, at first, they get a little nervous. I'm not gonna lie. But then they're actually very interested. If we think how many women are blindsided, like, the men are even more in the dark. So it's it's it's great for them. Right? Like, this is a great program for them as well.
Speaker 4
Yeah. And, actually, that's something that really surprised us in this work. We didn't know how many men would be showing up. We didn't know how interested they would be. We didn't know that they're, like, asking for tools. And so that's something in our road map that we're working towards is creating a session just for our allies so that they have a safe space to have ask questions so they don't feel like they're being judged. You know? And men are interested not just because of the women's on their team, but they have partners and wives at home.
Speaker 2
And moms and sisters and
Speaker 4
Yeah. So they're seeing changes. They know something is going on and something's upset or, like, all of a sudden the you know, for example, their partner's libido has shifted, and they're like, is it me, or is there somebody else? Like, what's going on? And it's really about saying, yeah. No. It's not it's a change of libido is a reflection not of you, but a reflection of what's going on in the woman's body.
Speaker 0
Hopefully, libido and work are not always unified. This is not Hollywood. We're not, like
Speaker 3
This is not yeah. This is not the eighties anymore.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. Right? Yeah.
Speaker 0
Yeah. But I I do think that this sort of, the the lack of self confidence that's that comes from having all of these challenges if they are at home, if they are at work. So that loss of libido and not feeling sexy or wanted or wanting anymore can come to play in how you show up as a leader every day.
Speaker 2
Well, especially since most women already suffer from imposter syndrome. Right? Like and I'm not saying most. Maybe that's an exaggeration. I feel like many of us suffer from imposter syndrome, and we feel like, you know, we're not good enough or, you know, we don't know how to do this and we're actually just like, what if everyone realizes one day that I don't actually know what I'm doing? And then you come in and you've got these perimenopause symptoms that hit you like brain fog or memory loss and and some of these things, like, genuinely impact your ability to do your job. So how how do you support women through that?
Speaker 4
I've had a couple of clients share and think, oh, I'm having I'm having anxiety attacks. I need to find a new job. I can't do this anymore, and not making that connection. Mhmm. Which is why in our empower approach, we start with enlightenment. It's really about getting educated and making that connection that, oh, that these symptoms, these additional like, my threshold to stress, this anxiety, this imposter syndrome are actually connected to changes in hormones in my body. And until you actually get educated and understand that, you you you just go down a different path, and your doctor may take you down a path of, well, we'll put you on some anxiety medications. And that's not to say that's the wrong strategy for you. Not at all. It's just that we're giving you another lens in which to be able to look at your situation, to maybe look at, you know, from a root cause what may be happening so you have access to more tools that can support you. And then that's where, you know, for women, that's where, you know, the embracing piece becomes so important.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I was gonna say, let's jump in and tell us about this. Tell us about the program specifically. So the first step is enlightenment.
Speaker 4
Yes. So that's enlightenment. So the four we have a what's called an empower approach, and this, approach is the four we call the four e's, and it's the, enlightenment, it's embracing, it's exploring, and then it's it's envisioning. Okay. So we've talked about, the enlightenment, which is really around the education piece. The embracing piece is really around accepting that this is where you're at. You know? For some women, it might be not be willing to look at, oh, this is happening to me. I'm too young, or I don't wanna admit this because that means I can't have any more children, or I'll never be able to have children, or, no. That doesn't happen to me. Like, whatever whatever it is that you're up against.
Speaker 2
How do I embrace a hot flash in the middle of a presentation?
Speaker 3
Tell me that one.
Speaker 0
That is such a good question. You know, it's, I love the embrace piece because I I feel like this is one of those moments that I had with a friend who was also going through perimenopause where we were like, what if I just accepted that this was happening? What would I do different Right. If I weren't fighting against it? Right? If I weren't in, like, grappling with menopause as an enemy, but it's just it's the thing that is happening right now. And what if I were to say to myself during a hot flash, oh, this is a hot flash, as opposed to, oh my god. I'm having a hot flash. This is a hot flash. I'm having a hot flash, and now everyone can see that I'm having a hot flash and all my and then it just it's it spirals. So what if you take a step back? What if you're able to be mindful in the moment and say, oh, this is what's happening right now, and it will end. What do I need right now to make it through this? You know, this kind of takes us a bit further into the idea of advocacy, but, like, is it the kind of thing where you're like, I'm having a menopause moment, guys. Open that window.
Speaker 4
You know, it starts back to what we were talking about earlier, Michelle, which is this notion of, like, we're afraid to share this. But there's actually research from Penn State University, which actually shows is that we appear more leader like when we actually state what's going on versus when we're trying to hide behind it Wow. Happening. So by you taking over the narrative instead of the narrative taking over you, then that helps you to appear more leader like. And when you're appearing more leader like, that also helps you feel more confident. And that comes, but that can only happen first if you embrace. If you embrace that this is what's happening, then you're then you're able to put yourself in that position to be able to get in front of it.
Speaker 0
Yeah. Which which takes us to once you've embraced it, once you've said, okay. This is how it is right now and this is what I what I'm dealing with. How how am I going to deal with it? That's the exploration phase. Right? And while we are not medical doctors by any stretch of the imagination, we are going to encourage women to seek out medical attention. You know? Go to providers of care, and the Menopause Society of North America has a number of providers who are actually trained in this as opposed to the majority of providers who get, you know, like, ninety seconds in their entire medical education about this phase of life, perimenopause and menopause. I mean, there there are alarming statistics about that, so go to someone who knows. Right? Find the right provider. But then there are a lot of other tools, tips, and tricks that we have from our years of coaching and our experience in helping to shift mindsets and to help people find the answers that they need, which are already inside of themselves and they just need to kind of unlock them. You know, so we're we're able to use mindfulness. We're able to use mindset shifts. We're able to take all of these approaches and share them and practice them together so that we can show up in in the world in a much more confident way, in a much more easeful way, and it's, it's really brilliant to see.
Speaker 4
You know, for me, I had a lot of experimentation with hormone therapy and finding the one that was right for me in order to help me feel a little bit more balanced and calm so then I could actually show up as my best. So that exploration is seeking out the different tools that you need in your toolkit in order for you to be able to, get back to or find a new rhythm for yourself. And that's where that community piece also comes in because, you know, we're gonna learn from our healthcare providers, but we're also gonna learn from our our community around us and what's working. And rather it's hormone therapy, supplements, mindfulness, whatever whatever the strategy you choose, but we really encourage that phase of exploration. So that's the next phase.
Speaker 2
And sorry. So in in as part of your group, I would I get, like, a nice little booklet of here's a whole bunch of tools and see what works for you? Like, how does how does that conversation happen in the group?
Speaker 4
Yeah. So it's, we bring in different experts, as we're going along, and then we we do have worksheets and things to capture some of those tools. And then so you you create your own tools, and we encourage women to kinda keep their own journals as they're as they're going through that.
Speaker 2
Oh, I love that. That's amazing.
Speaker 0
Depending on the the focus of the group, we're kind of trying to to make some decisions so that we follow their agenda. And then the other piece really is around what the women bring themselves. Right? Because wherever they are in this journey, some people are more experienced, some people I mean, we've had people who are millennials who are quite interested, and even Gen z because younger and younger women are starting to understand this is coming. So how do I deal with it? Right? So depending on what phase of life you're in, what you're hoping to get out of it, you might have different things to share with the group. There might be different perspectives that you bring. So we wanna leave space for that kind of flexibility within the groups. But, yes, based on what you need to learn and know, you will get tools that will support you. We have a Facebook group that started with people who've, participated in our programming. So that's another place, a community to just drop in and Mhmm. Find connection.
Speaker 2
Connection is so important for so many of these journeys, whether it's, you know, workplace confidence or weight loss or just, you know, perimenopause in general, the community and that support is is super important.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. And that's oftentimes where people start to get their first ahas, where they start to, recognize that it's just not them, that they recognize it's something bigger. And I feel like it's the the place where they often start. Like, in my in my own story. You know, I was having conversation with girlfriends, and then, you know, she tells me this sounds like perimenopause. Then all of a sudden, I have some knowledge and I'm and I'm empowered to be like, okay. I gotta make an appointment with my doctor. I need to do some blood work and then, you know, figure out what the next steps are. So that community piece becomes such a vital piece about it.
Speaker 0
And I feel like we're very lucky, Salima and I, individually to have communities that talk about this. I mean, I have a thread of my college girlfriends that's, I mean, you know, it's a horror show of all the menopause, very menopause antics that occur. Right? But we have each other, and we're able to help each other. And not everyone has that, and definitely not everyone has that at work.
Speaker 2
Most people don't have they might have their work wife or work husband or but they don't have they don't have community. No. And this is why Michaela and I started this as well because we're like, if we can barely function with the and we're going through this together and we're trying to figure this out together. There's a lot of people that don't have that person and so, yeah, we need that. That's amazing. I think I cut you off ages ago on the fourth on the fourth I know all of our listeners are like, what are the fourth with you? Michelle, stop talking.
Speaker 4
So okay. So I just wanna repeat for anybody who's listening. Right? So we've gone through the enlightened piece. We've been educated. We've gone through embrace, and we're accepting it. We're finding our tribe and our community. We've now gone through the exploration, and we're starting to explore different strategies, reconnecting with our confidence. And now it's the envisioning piece, which is like, now what's available to us? What does this mean for us? What's possible now that we are in this next journey of our lives? And what really inspired this thinking and this possibility of what's next is, actually comes from the Japanese word, the closest word to menopause, which is called konenki. And konenki is really about rebirth. It's renewal renewal of energy. And so that's why we're, like, envisioning is really about, hey. This is a chance to renew ourselves. We we have some freed up energy and time that that we didn't have if we're taking care of our families, that we can now use to dedicate back to ourselves. You know, reconnecting, what's our purpose? How do I wanna spend the next fifty years of my life? Because it's still a third of our life, right?
Speaker 2
Like, we still have the whole things ahead of us.
Speaker 4
Yeah. And so, you know, it's really in the North American society where we see this as menopause as a, as a negative thing, and we see it as a decline, and it's aging. But biologically, that's not at all what's happening. There's no reason for that biologically. And even, you know, Lisa Moscone, she's a neuroscientist, and she wrote the book, menopause in the brain. And she shares, you know, that there's zero cognitive difference between women of this age and men of this age. Cognitively, what's happened is that during this phase, our brain sheds what it no longer needs. We just need to learn how to function now with this with some of the new functionality that we have. And so I can start to think about what's next, and I don't need to keep doing what I have been doing. Maybe I want to change careers. You know, I'm I'm not as fulfilled as I used to be. Maybe I wanna go out on my own, or maybe I wanna double down now. Now this is my time to double down. Maybe I wanna start my own business. Like, whatever is next, whatever those dreams are that you've been putting on the side or even didn't give yourself permission to dream about. We wanna give women that that space to be able to to do that and to dream and to envision what's next.
Speaker 2
Oh my god. I'm joining. I totally I love I love what you just said. I'm very inspired right now. This is just the start of the next big thing. And if you had asked me even ten years ago, I would have been like, no. Like, winding down by fifty five. I wanna be retired and living on the beach somewhere. And now it's like, no. Like, there's so much we still have to offer and inspire and there there's so much still ahead of us. I love that. So great.
Speaker 0
Absolutely. And I I don't think the intention is, that everyone who goes through our program will quit their jobs immediately and start their own company Okay. Which definitely want employers to know that's not the intention. And there there is a reckoning at this time where you say, where have I been putting my energy and effort, and where do I want to put those precious resources now? And we talk about it a little bit as a Koninky mindset. Like, if you were thinking about this as your time of rebirth and renewal and growth, what stamp would you want to put on the world? What would you want to to achieve? And I think it's very interesting to see how much more purpose driven people become, and I think we need more purpose driven people in leadership, in leadership of companies, in leadership of of organizations. So, so I think it's really exciting to think about what this could mean for our organizations. What if all of our businesses were more menopause friendly? What if we allowed women to kind of take flight at a time when they really can, and they have so much experience and expertise to bring to the table?
Speaker 2
And wisdom. Mhmm. Yeah. For sure. I love that. Can I ask you, for, you know, all the women that are not leaving the careers and staying, one of your goals is to help women be uninterrupted in their careers? So what does that look like in practice? What and is it realistic?
Speaker 0
That is a really good question, and thank you for asking it. I think what is holding you back is very different than what's holding me back, what's holding Salima back. And so what is holding me back from my vision of what my future could be? And maybe my vision is continued career growth, like a trajectory. Right? Like, that feels like the lack of interruption. Right? Maybe it's the current role in my company. Maybe it's a new role in my company. Maybe it's a different company. Maybe it's my own company. But what is my vision for what I want, and how can I continue on the trajectory towards getting it? And how do I not let perimenopause symptoms be the blocker? If you can consider this just another sort of obstacle on the course, right, like, that's one way that you can remain uninterrupted. I think you can develop a stronger voice and leadership presence. As Salima was talking about, we don't need to hide our menopause status. We can actually be more leader like if we come out and say, this is where I am. This is what I'm doing, and I'm moving forward. Right? And then creating awareness and support in the organization is another way to remain uninterrupted because not only you, but everyone else like you and everyone else who's coming up behind you will have that. Then we create a culture where it's just, again, normalized where this is how it is. And then there are fewer bumps in the road, snags in the carpet, whatever weird metaphor you wanna use.
Speaker 2
When I think of leadership, I always think of flawless perfection. Like and I really like that you guys are embracing that you can still be a leader. You can have that executive presence. It doesn't mean you have to be perfect. I think that's I think that's really powerful. How do you help women balance the like, their authenticity of, like, I'm full of flaws. I'm making a mess of this with that professionalism. Like, how where's the balance there?
Speaker 4
So I I would say when we look at leadership models today, we're seeing that what is appeasing people is when we're most authentic. And what we're trying to say is, like, embrace the flaws. We don't have to be perfect. We don't have to be all buttoned. And in fact, when we're not all buttoned and when we are making mistakes or when we are kind of showing up disheveled or something, that just shows that we are human, and that gives us to our authenticity. Even I have this example. I remember distinctively working with a woman. She was a in a tech company, a program manager, and she was in a lot of meetings with engineers and, you know, a design program manager. And she's like, well, I'm the only designer in the room. And I'm like, yes. Bingo. Like, that's amazing. The viewpoint that you bring, I mean, you are different than everybody else. They have no choice but to listen to you. Then that allows you to be able to to say speak what you need to say without censoring yourself.
Speaker 0
I love everything you said, Salima. And I have a a yes. Yes. And and I have a another thought that sort of is is building off of that, which is this idea of where, you know, it's a leadership thing and it's a parenting thing, and I always they they run into each other a lot in in in my conversations with with leaders. But when you show up as perfect, you set an unachievable sort of bar, right, for everyone else around you. And everyone else around you is trying to live up to perfect Lauren and her perfection and her professionalism. And then not only are you losing your authenticity, which is Salima was saying is why you should be in the room, right, but also everybody else's authenticity is all of a sudden, like, stifled. Right? Because we have to just be perfect. Everybody's perfect here. We're the perfect team. You know? And that's exhausting. And, you know, one of the things around perimenopause and menopause in the workplace, why women are getting so burned out, why women are struggling so much is because not only are they struggling with perimenopause symptoms, they are trying to hide the perimenopause symptoms. And the act of hiding is like the double whammy. Right? Like, so so you're exhausted from having them, and you're exhausted from hiding them and exhausted from trying to do all of your work. So it just becomes this very, vicious cycle, I guess, of, you know, you you can't catch a break, and you need to give yourself a break and show up as you. And everyone else can then feel comfortable to show up as them around you and what a better world it would be. Our perspectives on leadership are so skewed these days. I think this authentic leadership is really gonna be what changes the world in a positive direction.
Speaker 2
As a parent, I'm feeling a lot better about being as imperfect as I am every single day. My son can be free.
Speaker 0
You're all free.
Speaker 2
I had a very imperfect morning this morning. So yeah. I have, I'd love to chat with you a little bit about, menopause in the workplace. And are there any particular myths that, you would most like to dispel? Is there one or more that just kinda make you wanna scream?
Speaker 4
Yeah. So the first myth that we spend a lot of time on and focus on is this myth around, that silence is the best strategy. So Lauren just talked about that, you know, and and we tend to that double whammy effect, and we tend to operate and say, like, you know, I don't wanna I don't wanna be signaled out. I don't want another one thing to be held against me. And so that is probably the number one myth that we see over and over and over again. And we find that when you're operating under that myth, you're holding back some strategies that are available for you, and you're holding back your ability to step into your confidence.
Speaker 0
And then I think, you know, something we discussed a little earlier, but, you know, there's this belief that menopause is completely irrelevant to any male colleague or manager. Right? Like, why would it matter to them? What we've observed is that it matters, and they're super interested to learn more. And they're asking for tools about how to better support women. This is important to them too. And so it it you're not alone in so many different ways around this.
Speaker 2
So I have a question about that. So I'm picturing a woman, who's suffering with her symptoms, and she goes in to have a conversation with her male boss. And, you know, she somehow struggles through, perimenopause or these symptoms or trying to explain, and he looks like a deer caught in headlights is which my my experience is their first like, they they definitely come around. But do you have any tips or for women to start those conversations and or support them through those conversations?
Speaker 4
You know, we recognize, like, we're we're here publicly talking about our menopause. We recognize that, you know, it's not easy for everyone. And sometimes my husband says, like, everybody doesn't need to know what's going on with you. You know? And I'm just like, oh my god. And so, yeah, like, we're used to, sharing and having these conversations, but for other women, it's not it's not so open and something they're used to. And so what we've done is we've come up with a I coined an acronym. It's called FLIP.
Speaker 2
Okay.
Speaker 4
The f is, like, really around focusing on reclaiming your power. And that comes from, you know, when you're going through the the empower approach, when we start to get enlightened, when we start to embrace where we're at, when we start to explore strategies, that is us reclaiming our power. And then we say the l, so it's look for somebody whom you whom you trust. And so we're we don't necessarily need to go to your boss as the first person, but look for maybe somebody who's your your work wife, your work husband, or a colleague of yours whom that you trust. And then identify a phrase that you can say and then practice it. The practice that so to really anchor your message, and and it really comes from practice, practice, practice. So that's why we say, you know, start with somebody. Start small. Start with somebody whom you trust. Have that conversation a few times before you start and have the big one where you're just, like, so nervous and you don't even know how to have that conversation.
Speaker 0
And I think there's another, another piece to it, which seems to be sort of supported by some data, is that if you come in, not with a problem but with a solution, it can be very valuable, especially when talking to your to your supervisor. You know? You don't go in to share, I'm having perimenopause, and it's a disaster area and watch out world. Right? But, you know, I'm I'm in perimenopause. I'm having hot flashes pretty frequently. I would like some accommodations for this or I you know, there's an hour in the afternoon where I just can't, and I need a moment. So can I please block my calendar for that? Or, you know, what are the wins that you can get that they can help you achieve? Because then they're succeeding on your behalf. You're succeeding. Everybody feels good about that. So agree with Selena. The flip is really important and the and the practicing, practicing, practicing, just becoming confident in it. And and, I mean, we see this has happened with a lot of different things. We talked about, you know, how nobody used to talk about being pregnant in the office because
Speaker 4
Right.
Speaker 0
Heaven forefend, I should have a baby, and everyone will know that I'm pregnant. Like, these things know it's no longer that. People know you're adopting. People know you're having IVF. People know you're having IUI. Like, we know all of these things now. We'll get there. We'll get there, but it's gonna take all of us showing up and having the conversation. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. But to have that coaching, which is so invaluable for women in careers, in leadership, in in everything, and then to have it married to this pretty significant life transition that we're we're going through is is really magical. I love it. It's great. Thank you for coming up with that idea. So good.
Speaker 4
You know, it was interesting as we were coming through, we we saw signals that kind of encouraged us. It's like, shoot me. You know, when we were at the National Menopause Show in October, we were the only booth that were were talking about menopause in the workplace. And we had so many women come up to us and say, oh, I wish you were around ten years ago. I had to leave my job. I took a lesser job. I retired early. You know, they shared all these stories, and then other women would come up to us and say, like, are you talking to this organization? My organization needs to know this. We need some support. They're like, please, like, have this conversation. And so it was a lot of validation.
Speaker 2
Yes.
Speaker 4
Women need support. And it you know, it's gonna come from, like, the bottom up from each of us leaders, you know, having these conversations in our organizations, but it's also gonna come from the top as well. And so we need to we need to both have tools and systems to be able to share shift the entire ecosystem.
Speaker 2
I love it.
Speaker 0
So the community that we're talking about, like, it's gonna come from all angles. It comes from your community and the people that you serve and the people that you bring together and the ideas that you have that help people explore this transitional phase and us and us all coming together around it. That's gonna make a huge difference for so many women. And I just feel so grateful that we're all in community around this topic and saying it loud and proud. We're in perimenopause and menopause. Ta da.
Speaker 2
Yeah. We're and and you know what? To, like, to hear you say and we weren't you you we also heard. I wish this was around ten years ago. Like, I've my heart breaks for the women, you know, my mother twenty years ago getting ripped off HRT like the the stories and and where we're at now, I mean we still have a really far way to go to make this all better and equal and supported the way it needs to be but the steps you guys are taking is it's it's great thank you so much I love it. Couple more questions before I let you go. What's your vision for mPower and and how it can help to transform workplace culture around menopause over the next five to ten years?
Speaker 0
I mean, the the best case scenario is, number one, that that women leaders are thriving in their personal and professional lives, and they are uninterrupted, as we said before, by perimenopause and menopause. And that workplaces are more inclusive, That it's become part of that conversation Salima was talking about. You know, we've got the neurodiversity, we've got the accessibility, we've got we've got all the things and menopause is one of them.
Speaker 4
We know we've done our job when malmenopause is just a natural, area in addition to the the tools and support that's being offered within the organization and even beyond menopause. Like, it's just and we talk about mental well-being, we're talking about women's health in general. You know, being more holistic in terms of people's mental well-being, people's physical well-being. You know, we're working jobs that are a lot more stressful, that are a lot more taxing and demanding on us. And so, helping, you know, organizations recognizing that and recognizing the impact that it has and then really creating that inclusive organization is really what we're what we're after driving for. And I just love that you asked this question, so thank you for that.
Speaker 2
You're welcome. If I wanted to join the empower group program, how does that work?
Speaker 0
When we are initiating a program for an individual organization corporation, we work on their schedule. For our, cohorts of individuals that we're bringing together, we tend to work on a schedule when our list sort of fills up to a point where we can get everyone on the same page. So we do have a wait list running at empower program dot com, and you can sign up there. And then when the next cohort is is ready to roll, we'll, we'll open it up to that group of people.
Speaker 2
Amazing. And then if I wanted to get my company on board, do I go to my HR department and ask them to check you out and give you get in touch with you?
Speaker 4
Yes. It's either through the HR department. It might be through your women's ERG. So those are just a couple of avenues. It could be learning and development. So any of those people who you may have a relationship with or your your your DEI or diversity, inclusion and belonging folks. Those would be the people that I would approach to say, we we you know, there's a great program here. There's menopositivity. This would be a great education program to bring into the organization.
Speaker 2
I feel like I just, like, dated myself on how long it's been since I've been in the corporate world.
Speaker 3
I didn't even know. I got HR. I didn't I didn't even know we had all those things now. Wow. Okay. I was like, I hope
Speaker 2
our listeners know what that
Speaker 3
all means, but I'm sure they do. I'm the old I'm the old person.
Speaker 2
What is the one thing you would love everyone to know about menopause in the workplace?
Speaker 0
So one thing that I'd like women to know, and I'm not there yet, so it's just a dream of mine right now. But, we've been talking to a lot of women who are fifty five and older who have gone through all of the perimenopause and now are in you know, have hit the one day of menopause where your period's been gone for twelve months. Now you're postmenopause. And they have said categorically, it can and will get better. You know, there's a lot to look forward to. It just gets juicier, and that gives me so much hope that the work that we're doing is going to, like, speed us into that. Right? That we're going to find the ways to make this period of time in our lives so much more meaningful, again, by sort of embracing and and doing it together.
Speaker 4
It I wanna connect back to this myth around silence being the best strategy. I really want women to feel empowered. You know, so that's why we we share the studies, we share the statistics, so that, you know, when we're silent, we give it more power when we're silent. But as soon as the moment we talk about it, we we take away the power of the stigma. And so I really want to impress women about that. Like, it's as scary as it may seem. It doesn't have to be that way, and you end up reclaiming your power when you start to talk about it. And just start. Start with people whom you trust. It doesn't have to be a big thing. You don't have to put it on a billboard, but just start small with your small community, your trusted people, and you will work yourself you will work your way there.
Speaker 2
Oh, that's wonderful. Those are both wonderful messages. Thank you so much, and thank you for coming on the show. We, I was so excited when we met you at at the Menopause Show, and we've been looking forward to this conversation because as I mentioned earlier, like, I don't know that there's a lot of programs like this out there. And so thank you for for all that you're doing. It's really exciting.
Speaker 4
I have really enjoyed your podcast. Such amazing topics.
Speaker 2
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much, ladies.
Speaker 3
Thank you, Michelle.
Speaker 2
Thanks so much for listening to the show. If you like what you hear, please take a moment to rate and subscribe to our podcast. When you do this, it helps to raise our podcast profile so more women can find us and get a little better understanding of what to expect in perimenopause.
Speaker 1
We also read all the reviews, the good, the bad, and the ugly to help us continuously improve our show. We would love to hear from you. You can connect with us through the podcast, on social media, or through our website. Our information as well as links and details from our conversation today can be found in the show notes. This podcast is for general information only. It's designed to educate, inspire, and support you on your personal journey through perimenopause. The information and opinions on this podcast are not intended to be a substitution for primary care, diagnosis, or treatment. The information on this podcast does not replace professional health care advice. The use of the information discussed is at the sole discretion of the listener. If you are suffering from symptoms or have questions, please consult a qualified health care practitioner.
