Episode Transcript
Speaker 0
We've got an awesome podcast for you today, especially if you're someone who's lying awake at three AM, dragging yourself through the day on fumes, or just wondering why has sleep gotten so hard these days.
Speaker 1
We are so excited to welcome back the incredible doctor Wagany Filate. Doctor Wagany is a sleep specialist and cofounder of Loom Women and Health, a Toronto clinic dedicated to women's health. She's got a wealth of experience in respiratory and sleep disorders, has a book coming out, and, honestly, she just knows sleep like nobody else we've talked to.
Speaker 0
And this episode is part of something really, really special, our reclaim your rest sleep series brought to you in partnership with n d.
Speaker 1
Every month for the rest of season three, we're diving deep in all things sleep because if we're not sleeping, nothing else is working.
Speaker 0
That's so true. And if you haven't listened yet, you should go back and listen right after this episode. So far, we've talked about why our sleep gets disrupted and more importantly, what we can do about it. And, also, also, coming up, we've got the incredible Gina Livy and doctor Olinka Trejo, and they're gonna be talking about how sleep impacts our weight. So stay tuned for that episode.
Speaker 1
Today's episode with doctor Watagani is not going to disappoint. We get into why both the quality and quantity of your sleep matters, what's actually happening in your brain while you sleep, and why deep sleep is your best defense against dementia.
Speaker 0
And we also talk about the link between inconsistent sleep and heart disease risk, really important, and why so many of us are wide awake in perimenopause at three AM and what we can actually do about it.
Speaker 1
Some of this info can feel big and scary, but we believe information is power. And the fact is there are so many things that we can do to improve our sleep with the right information and support. The big message from doctor Wagoni, you do not have to accept broken sleep as your new normal. This is perimenopause, and there's so much within our control. Let's get into it.
Speaker 0
And now, a word from our partners.
Speaker 1
This episode is brought to you by Indi, Canada's best mattress brand trusted by over one million happy sleepers. If you're navigating perimenopause, you already know how much sleep can affect how you feel and how you show up each day. While we can't control everything, having the right mattress can make a real difference. Endy mattresses are made with open cell foam infused with cooling gel to promote airflow and help release heat, keeping you more comfortable through the night. Combined with pressure point relief and motion isolation, they're designed to help your body settle in and stay asleep so you can wake up feeling more refreshed and more you. Upgrade your sleep today at indy dot com.
Speaker 0
Waganyi, thank you so much for coming on the show again. It's been way too long and an absolute pleasure to have you back.
Speaker 2
Happy to be back. How have
Speaker 0
you been? Tell us about what you've been doing this past year.
Speaker 2
Lots been going on. Lots of exciting things. Loom Women in Health celebrated our one year anniversary in December, so we're super proud of that. Congratulations. Thank you. We've seen over five hundred patients. Oh, wow. We're just really thrilled about the work that we're doing. The patients are so happy, and and we're continuing to grow and develop new programs and see more patients. So we're really excited about that.
Speaker 0
Good. Congratulations.
Speaker 2
Thank you.
Speaker 0
That's amazing. We need more of you guys.
Speaker 2
Thanks. Absolutely.
Speaker 0
One of your specialties at Loom is sleep, and that's why we're here today. But this is part of our n d sleep series, and we I think we can all agree that sleep is, like, the most important thing. It's the most important pillar of our health and longevity and our health span and everything. We would love to talk a little bit about quality versus quantity sleep for our health span. Does it matter if I'm getting six hours of deep restorative sleep or eight hours of fragmented sleep? Is is one better than the other? What what happens? Does it matter?
Speaker 2
So the answer is it does matter, and it's one of these caveat where we need both actually. We can't pick one. You can't pick one. You need both quality and quantity. And this has actually been studied. So we know from large studies that sleep duration, let's talk about that first, and mortality actually have a u shaped pattern. Meaning, there is a sweet spot in the total number of hours you should be getting that has the lowest risk of of death. And this is a large studies that have been done, and that's between seven to eight hours. So that's the sweet spot of how much sleep we should be getting, such that if you get less than seven hours of sleep, that's unhealthy, increases your risk of mortality, and then similarly, more is not better. So sleeping more than eight hours, nine hours consistently is also not great.
Speaker 0
And is this for women, for men, for everyone, humans
Speaker 2
in general? Done human adults in general. Okay. Men and women. So we know that there is a sweet spot. You need to somehow be in that seven to eight hours. And, you know, life happens, so we can't be perfect every night. But it's something to really think about, especially when you have control to really target seven to eight hours of sleep. In terms of quality, so we know that actually sleep disruption, so if you're having six hours, seven hours of sleep, but it is very disrupted, that can also increase your risk of mortality and sort of reduce your your health span. And there are many reasons for that. You could be having sleep disruption because of a sleep disorder. So whether that be insomnia, obstructive sleep apnea, we know that those can impact your health long term. If you have chronic diseases that are impacting your ability to get deeper sleep, some medications that you're on can also have an impact on your sleep. So it's it's hard to pick one what whether to get, you know, six hours of deep sleep or, you know, eight hours of interrupted sleep. It is really a it's a bit of both. We need we need column a and we
Speaker 0
need column b. So almost like plan out, like, nine hours so that you can try to nail that seven to eight hours.
Speaker 2
Get the seven to eight. And, you know, for every person, it's every woman, especially, it's different. Everyone has their own routine. They know what works for them. And, you know, I joke with my patients. Like, when I tell them, you know, you're supposed to get eight hours of sleep and go to bed at the same time, wake up at the same time, they say to me, doctor Felate, you are no fun. I can't have a life, right, if I have to be in bed every day at nine o'clock. And I and I don't disagree. You know, life, I want you to enjoy your life, and I'm not saying you can't be social and do the things that you like to do. But when you have control, you really wanna make sure that those are the nights that you prioritize your sleep and put deposits in that sleep bank. You know? Like, get those seven, eight hours regularly. But by all means, you know, enjoy yourself as well.
Speaker 3
So consistent, not perfect.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Nothing's perfect. And also when you strive for perfection, you miss out on being good. Alright? Good at your sleep. Right?
Speaker 3
Right. Right. Right. Probably feed right into that insomnia. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Excellent.
Speaker 2
The stress level goes up. Oh, for sure.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Let's, let's talk doctor Wageningi, let's talk about brain health. Can you explain a little bit about what's happening when we sleep and and why sleeping is so important for our cognitive health? Maybe, you know, I think anyone who's got perimenopausal brain fog, hands up. Right? Yeah. All the hands up.
Speaker 2
All the hands up. All the
Speaker 3
hands up. There's always that back of the mind, dementia risk. Oh my god. Is this just you know, so maybe we could also talk a little bit about sleep and dementia risk because that is Sure. I think probably top of mind for most of our listeners.
Speaker 2
So there's so much that happens in our sleep that is so paramount for our brain. So let's just take it back. Sleep physiology one zero one. When we sleep, the brain does many many things, but I'll focus on the two most important one. One is when we sleep is when we get a lot of memory consolidation. So one part of the sleep process is, you know, during the day we acquire new information, and when we sleep, the brain actually moves all of that information from, like, a temporary storage area of the brain, so one part of the brain, to a more long term storage system of the brain. So you're actually acquiring new information and making it long term information, and we actually need that in in deep sleep. So if you can imagine, if you're not getting enough sleep or you're not sleeping well, well, then you don't have that ability to translate short or new information into your long term information in your brain. The other thing that's super fascinating about the brain and especially as it relates to dementia, in slow wave sleep, which is actually a type of deep sleep, we do a type of cleaning of the brain. So think of it like a dishwasher for your brain. So during the day, we accumulate information, we're going about our day. So we actually build up debris, for lack of a better word, like proteins and things like that that accumulate in the brain. And we actually need deep sleep to clean that out, to go through, clean the dishes, clean everything out. And when you don't get enough deep sleep, you don't have that cleaning system. Mhmm. And some of the proteins that accumulate when you don't have that cleaning system are actually the same proteins that are responsible for Alzheimer's disease. So we know when you don't get enough deep sleep, you don't have that cleaning mechanism, those proteins that are linked to Alzheimer's disease, dementia specifically, accumulate. And so it's really important that not only do you get, like, we talked about the seven hours of sleep and the regular sleep and the good quality, but you wanna do that for the reason is in order to get deep sleep, you need to be sleeping enough. Right? Because it's about fifteen to twenty percent of the night that we get into deep sleep. So there is a huge link between dementia risk specifically and poor sleep.
Speaker 3
So for everyone who's panicking right now No.
Speaker 0
Because I'm panicking right now. You can see it in my stomach. Wait. What do you
Speaker 2
Don't panic. Panic.
Speaker 3
What do you what do you you must hear the like, you must what do you think patients?
Speaker 2
So number one, this isn't like a one and done. Like, if you get if you are a bad sleeper that you are destined down the road of dementia. No. These are associations. And actually, there's so much that you can do. So we know that dementia is a disease process that actually has multiple risk factors, sleep is one part of the, you know, the picture. Eating well, exercising, being on top of your cholesterol, avoiding diabetes, being mentally stimulated, having good networks, making sure your hearing and your vision, are are good. Those are all important factors of preventing dementia as well. So it's really a jigsaw puzzle where all these pieces are fitting together and sleep is one important part. So if you're struggling with sleep, don't beat yourself up. Think about the other parts of that puzzle that you can optimize also to reduce your risk of dementia.
Speaker 0
And how do I know if I'm getting deep sleep?
Speaker 2
So that's a great question. So outside of a formal sleep study, you don't really know. You need to be able to have sort of the brain monitors on because Okay. It's a very characteristic sleep pattern when we see it on the brain. There are, you know, like I'm wearing an Oura ring. There are other wearables that can guesstimate the amount of deep sleep you're getting, but, again, it's a guess. We don't actually know. It's inferred based on movement. The best test I would tell patients is if you feel rested. Right? You probably got a good night sleep. You got a little bit of stage one, stage two, that deep sleep and REM sleep. And, you know, don't try not and this is what I say to patients all the time, try not to obsess too much about your wearable data because that can actually create another sleep problem where you become so anxious. You're trying to, like, max those numbers. You get stressed, and you may then second guess your own data. Right? Like, I think I slept well last night, but my watch or my ring is telling me I didn't, and then that creates a type of tension.
Speaker 0
That happened to my husband. His aura always we would go to the bed at the same time. It thought he was awake for, like, hours past me. And it's I think he moves his legs a lot. But then in the morning, he's like, oh, I I feel great. And then he'd look at his ring and go, oh, I didn't sleep. No. I'm and then five minutes later, he's like, I'm so tired.
Speaker 2
Well, that's it. Right? Is that mind yeah. So I always say, check-in with yourself first, how you feel, and then you can supplement it with what your your data is telling you. If I'm dreaming a lot, does that
Speaker 0
mean I'm in the right sleep spot?
Speaker 2
Well, that means you you probably had REM sleep because that's the sleep that you the sleep stage where you dream. But even if you didn't remember a dream, you you are still likely in REM. You've had the REM sleep. So you don't always remember all all of the dreams, but you're most likely got you got REM sleep. And REM is the deep part. No. REM is I know. So REM is its own type of sleep. Okay. So maybe I'll just I don't know how detailed your listeners wanna get. No. Let's go through it. Let's go through it. So there are two we go start from the big. There's sleep, and sleep is divided into two categories. REM sleep, because it's a very characteristic brain activity pattern, and then what we call non REM sleep. And it's that non REM sleep that then has further subdivisions between stage one, stage two, and stage three. And stage three has another name, which is called deep sleep or slow wave sleep. So when we were talking about dementia risk, it's in that stage three slow wave deep sleep. Okay. And so, you know, when you go to sleep, you start at stage one, which is the lightest stage of sleep. You can almost convince yourself that you were kind of awake. It's easy to get woken up from that stage of sleep. Then you go into stage two, and then the deepest is stage three. So my analogy, it's like when you're walking on a beach. Right? You're going from the sand to light light water, deep water, all the way deep. So that's, like, one, two, and three. So stage one, two, and three. Oh, okay. And then REM sleep is its own unique physiologic experience, and so that's why it's separated.
Speaker 0
Okay. And it's part of the same sleep cycle, though? It's
Speaker 2
it's part of those four stages of sleep. So you typically will go not always. You go stage one, two, three REM, and then you keep cycling. And what's interesting since we're going there Yeah. We actually spend most of the deep sleep, like that stage three sleep, in the first half of the night.
Speaker 0
Oh, fair. I do that for sure.
Speaker 2
And then in the latter half of the night, so let's say between three AM, five AM is when you get the most REM sleep. Okay. So I also Is that why
Speaker 3
in perimenopause, we're all waking up?
Speaker 2
You're waking up around in the in the REM and during your REM sleep cycle most of the times.
Speaker 0
So I heard a couple years ago that every hour of sleep before midnight is worth, like, double. Is that true?
Speaker 2
It's anecdotally true because it's the concept as your body is prioritizing that deep sleep in the first half of the night. So the more that you can get, you can bank in that first half of the night, that's actually where you're gonna get most of that deep sleep. So if you're going to bed midnight one o'clock, you may get a little bit of deep sleep, but then you're likely going straight into REM sleep. Well, I've nailed the sleep then. I'm good. No. You're good. You're good.
Speaker 0
Even though I feel like I'm close. Even though I feel like I'm never asleep, I nailed it if I got the first half. I'm usually asleep until one, so it's good. What about sleep and heart health? What's the connection there?
Speaker 2
So it's a huge connection. Just in the same way that the brain and sleep have such a pivotal role, the heart has a pivotal role too. And there are it's actually the mechanisms of how sleep disruption impacts the heart are fascinating. So one way that poor sleep impacts our heart health is we need our blood pressure to go down when we sleep. Right? That's what happens during the day. We're out and about. The blood pressure is, you know, in its up not up, but it's in its, you know, state of awake. Right? Like, you're doing things. But when you sleep, everything should be turned down and the blood pressure should drop. When you're not sleeping well, you don't get that drop in blood pressure. So you can eventually get a slow creep on what your baseline blood pressure is and that can, you know, can lead to heart disease. The other thing too, if you think about if you're having massive sleep disruption, whether that be from hot flashes, sleep apnea, insomnia, your sympathetic nervous system or your flight fight or flight system is activated. So that leads to stress hormone release, that leads to inflammation, and it actually changes the blood vessels in that process itself, and that can increase your risk of heart disease. And then finally, when you're not sleeping well, we have a lot of difficulty using insulin and use and absorbing sugars into our into, the body, and that can also lead to obesity, insulin resistance, diabetes, which in and of itself is a risk factor for heart disease. So lots of fascinating ways that poor sleep impacts impacts heart health.
Speaker 3
And that would be the same for stroke risk as well.
Speaker 2
I would personally
Speaker 3
Same mechanism. Mechanism. Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 0
And and and going back to the quality versus the quantity. So I think when we when I was researching this, there was something I came across in the American Heart Association Journal, and it said that going to bed inconsistently and not getting that consistent sleep is really is really damaging to our hearts. So, like, what happens to all of us? All the women in perimenopause and menopause, like, how do we what what can we do?
Speaker 2
So I think so two parts. So what can you do? Number one, you don't have to suffer. Right? Like, I think it's really important to empower women who are in perimenopause during the menopause transition that don't just take it. Don't just assume that it's okay that your sleep is garbage and that you're not sleeping well and you're anticipating one bad night after the other. Talk to your doctor. There are also lots of ways that we can help, whether that be if you were waking up because of hot flashes and night sweats, what medications, non medication, non hormonal medications, or hormones that are available to you. Could there be a sleep disorder at play? I know we talked about this before where actually, as we enter menopause, we're more likely to have sleep apnea than premenopause, and it doesn't
Speaker 0
look like
Speaker 2
the same sleep apnea that we all think about, you know, the the being obese, thick neck, or, you know, big snoring or snorting at night. So I think it's we need to take away the normalization that sleep disturbances are part of the menopause transition because we can't we can't help. And then going back to the American Heart Association, what they it was fascinating. They're they've now put sleeping irregularly as an independent risk factor for heart disease. And they did that because they looked at studies, thousands of people. I think the study was, like, five years, and they found that people who were their total sleep time changed about two hours. Mhmm. Right? So if you're getting eight hours one night, six hours one night, nine hours, seven like, all that kind of variability, you actually double your risk of heart disease. Double your risk compared to those that were sleeping within one hour, like a total sleep time that varied only by an hour. And the same with going to bed. So if your bedtime consistently changes by more than ninety minutes night to night, that also increases your risk. So that's independent. I'm telling you. This is independent. I know. No one wants to be my patient because they're not gonna have any time on it. Right? I mean, like, I can't go out. I can't I'm like, yes, you can. But, you know, it's important, like and and, you know, the easy stuff is hard. Right? Yeah. We know what we need to do. We know we need to sleep seven to eight hours. We know we have to exercise. We know we have to eat well. We you know? And so it's about just always being able to go back to what you can control when you can. Right? So just know that you actually are in the driver's seat.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And I think to your point about simple but hard. Right? There are lots of habits, little habits, little things you can work on to make it so that the variability in when you go to bed is within that, you know That window. That hour window. You know, I'm just I'm thinking last night about my night. Both of my kids had activities really late.
Speaker 0
I was gonna say we have to give our kids away then. Probably not.
Speaker 3
Drivers or some I yeah. But if I'm if I'm stepping back and really looking at the situation, with a little bit of a little better planning and maybe, you know, having in the back of my mind, okay. How do I get everybody home into bed? And that means, you know, setting things up so that we're not doing everything when we get rolling the door at ten thirty last night.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 0
Right. Obnoxious hour. So what time did
Speaker 2
you get to
Speaker 0
bed last night?
Speaker 3
Well, actually, I was in bed by eleven thirty.
Speaker 0
Oh, okay. But that's too bad. Late for me.
Speaker 3
That's, like, that's ridiculous for Michelle. That's Yeah. For me, if I can
Speaker 2
get to Sorry.
Speaker 0
Full disclosure. Fine. Thirty nine. Fine.
Speaker 3
I'm the bad child on this call. But if I can be lights out before eleven thirty PM, And I usually if I push it, I can sleep till seven AM or seven fifteen. So I'm still
Speaker 2
Well, that's not bad. That's not
Speaker 3
bad. Find as well, and I don't know if this is a thing, doctor Wagonie. If I missed that eleven thirty, maybe it's psychosomatic. I'm not sure. I have a much harder time falling asleep.
Speaker 0
Yeah.
Speaker 2
It's your sleep window. Right? You're probably conditioned to that sleep window, and you have to listen to your body.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Is there a connection between, our sleep quality and biological aging? Like, is is poor sleep speeding up how we age at a cellular level?
Speaker 2
Yeah. So there are some really interesting observational data, genetic data that that's actually the case. And I think that can explain some of the original studies that were done long time ago where they did make that u shape, curve showing that when you get seven, eight hours, you actually are living longer than at the extremes. You know, we won't go into the, like, biological mechanisms, but we know that there's increased cellular aging when you are sleeping poorly. DNA methylation patterns change. We shorten our telomeres, which are like the protective caps at the end of our chromosomes, which just by aging every day, they get shorter. But when you're sleeping poorly over time, there's some early evidence that they they shorten much faster. It doesn't mean that, you know, again, for all the women listening who are struggling with their sleep, it doesn't mean that you're doomed, but this is sort of observational evidence that supports all of what we've talked about before that, you know, your risk of disease goes up, heart disease, dementia, etcetera.
Speaker 3
And what do you say to and and just for context, I come from a banking background. Right? And, oh my god, like, the, oh, I slept for four hours is a badge of honor in that world. And in a lot of worlds, it's not exclusive to to banking. What do you say to those people who are like, but I'm fine. I feel like I got four hours. I'm good. Yeah. Is that actually possible for some people, or
Speaker 2
are they just kidding themselves? Well, I think if we look at who are the true short sleepers, so there is, like, a small, small subset of the population that can sleep four to five hours a night and actually has no impact on their health. And these are people, you know, you can put Bill Gates in that category, Steve Jobs, like, really, really unique small group of people, but the that that's like I don't even know the number, but it's like less than one percent of the population. So very small degree of people who can survive fine on four to five hours of sleep. But the majority of us actually need more, and we need to kinda work against that culture that sleep deprivation is like a badge of honor. And, you know, maybe when you're in your twenties, that's fine because your ability to, you know, perform and, you know, and survive on short sleep. But as we get older, it's actually the reverse. You need to think of sleep as, like, your strategy, your your toolkit of yours, how to be effective, how to be an effective leader or manager,
Speaker 0
performing. Human being, like, how
Speaker 2
to be a good human, how to be a good mother, wife, sister, daughter, all the things you do need sleep. I do think it's changing. I have sort of seen in the younger patients that, you know, in their thirties that I've seen, actually are now so in tune to wellness, and sleep is one of their, you know, prioritization areas. And so I do think culturally, there's a bit of a shift, whether that's in really high performing sectors. I don't know. I mean, medicine is finding the means. And they're support. They don't drink
Speaker 0
as much. They don't like Yeah. It's it's they're gonna be better.
Speaker 2
It's a different it's I mean, I'm sure they have other things that they're working on, you know, screen addiction, etcetera. I see. Every generation has something. Right. But there is a I have seen a bit of a shift in the younger generation really focusing on wellness and sleep being one
Speaker 0
of the core components. Interesting. Can I this is sidebar, but you pulled up Bill Gates and Steve Jobs? Like, is is that documented that they only need I mean,
Speaker 2
I I'd have to look it up, but I know anecdotally, it's people talk about that. You know, like,
Speaker 0
I see too much to become a bazillionaire. That's my fault. I mean,
Speaker 2
you know, I think it's like a phenotype of person. I'm not saying that it's right or wrong. I think it's it's like a
Speaker 0
collection of characteristics. Interesting. Okay. I I didn't know that. Good to know.
Speaker 2
I was gonna say, you know, Miguel, to your point about, you know, like the banking industry, like, it's a badge of honor to sleep, you know, four hours and, you know, everyone's like patting themselves on the back. Well, medicine is is actually not exempt from that. Right? Which actually The way I know. It's changing. My mind. Like, we are It's changing.
Speaker 3
Training humans Yeah. To save the lives of other humans, and we seem to think that sleep deprivation is important.
Speaker 0
It's the way to deal with it.
Speaker 1
That training. I don't understand it.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So it's not perfect. It's not perfect. I mean, I do think it's changing. I mean, I've when was in medical school almost twenty years to graduate almost twenty years ago, and it was very different. You know, I have many memories of, like, coming home from, you know, thirty six hour call shifts totally wiped, like Oh my god. So many so many, you know, near misses on many levels. But, yeah, it's it's it's I think it's changing, and I think it's part of now that we know better. We have to do better. Right? Yeah. Fair.
Speaker 0
Yeah. You know a lot about sleep. And, I understand you have a book coming out. We would love, love, love to know absolutely everything there is to know.
Speaker 2
Oh, thank you. Yes. So I have been working on this since, really twenty twenty three, twenty four. Wow. The book is gonna be likely published by end of December. So in the new ready for new year, new you, twenty twenty seven. Oh, that's
Speaker 0
a perfect timing. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So the tentative title is called Sleep Well. Oh.
Speaker 3
And that's
Speaker 2
sort of a science backed guide to sleeping well in midlife, perimenopause, menopause, and beyond. And it's a lot of what we talk about today. It's going over the science of sleep, what the different sleep stages mean, how sleep changes through a woman's life, right, from when she's in puberty to pregnancy, postpartum, perimenopause, menopause, or sort of looking at that arc of a woman's life and how many times in her life our sleep is challenged.
Speaker 0
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
And then talking about all the different symptoms, whether that be menopause symptoms impacting sleeps, different sleep disorders. And really the book ends with, like, a toolkit on how you can improve your sleep, like, really actionable bite sized tips that you could start, you know, the day that you read the book. So I'm really excited about it. Congratulations.
Speaker 0
That's amazing. Thank you. We'll definitely be well, you know what? Let's do a giveaway, Mikael. Yeah. We'll do a big contest giveaway.
Speaker 2
Oh, so It's totally amazing.
Speaker 0
On our new website. Yeah. No. That's amazing. Congratulate. What was it like writing a book? It's very solitary.
Speaker 2
It's a very solitary activity. It's much more work than I thought. It's very different than writing a scientific text or writing a journal article. It's being able to translate scientific topics into digestible content. Yeah. But you're so good at that. Oh, thank you. Thank you.
Speaker 0
But then I guess it's saying it is one thing and then writing it.
Speaker 2
Saying it and then writing it because I wanna write so much. I have, like, all these points, and my editor was, like, stop adding. Stop. Like, she literally said it
Speaker 3
out. Page book.
Speaker 2
I don't wanna she's, like, save it. Put it in another document. I was, like, put this one more out of my Parts one last point. Yeah. And so that
Speaker 3
was That's funny.
Speaker 2
It's being able to also not overwhelm. Right? It's one thing someone's coming to this topic, like, never had really thought about sleep. And don't overwhelm. I want everyone who reads the book to feel empowered and knowing that they can actually do something to improve their sleep.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's the you must encounter that in your practice all the time. I feel like most people don't realize there are so many things they can be doing and that this isn't just the way it is. Right? It also doesn't help. I mean, I had a provider tell me this would be eight years ago now. Well, maybe you just don't need as much sleep anymore.
Speaker 0
And they're like,
Speaker 2
no. What? Can I show you the u shaped curve? Do you remember that? Yeah.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Sorry. Do you know doctor Wageningi Filatieri? You're you're wrong. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Yeah. No. It's important. What's doctor Wagany, what's the one thing you want every woman to know about sleep and longevity?
Speaker 2
I think it's to your point. Like, it's we don't have to suffer, and we don't have to take our the changes that we are experiencing in our sleep as the new normal. Right? I think number one, be empowered to want to change, seek support. So whether that be, you know, going to your doctor, finding alternative health providers, or just looking at and doing your own research on how you can improve your sleep. And know that there's actually so much within your control that you can do. Yes. We have kids, you know, like to your point, kids' sports schedule, maybe your work schedule, looking after aging parents, and that is not gonna change. But what can you do in your environment to improve your sleep? You know, going to bed ten to fifteen minutes earlier, putting down your cell phone, turning off notifications, listening to meditation or quiet there's so many things which seem small And, like, oh, that's not really gonna help. Oh, that's not gonna help my sleep. But if it's all about little baby steps that compound over time, I've just I'm late to the party. I just finished reading, Atomic Habits. Like, I don't know where I was, like, living under a rock. So that was so I just read
Speaker 1
I know you were writing the book. Right.
Speaker 2
Writing the book. Right. That's what we'll say. That's it. And it really resonated with me on so many levels. And when I talk to patients, like, we often think about all the things we have to change. Like, I need to, like, get rid of my kids. I need to get a you know, sleep on my own and do all these things. But actually, start small, and little small repetitive habits can have huge impact over time.
Speaker 3
Yeah. What's the quote? Brene Brown always loves that book as well and talks about I think it's something like, we succeed and fail to the level of our systems. Right?
Speaker 0
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And I think that's a big that was a big money shift for me too. Like, I was setting all these goals and failing you know, succeeding temporarily and then crash and burn hard. And it's not the big goal. It's it's building the system. Right? And it's the small consistencies of super power, those small consistent habits that you build over time that really it they do make a difference.
Speaker 2
And they add up and it's compounded. Right? Like, everything that you do, you make one small change, you feel good about that, and then you move on to the next thing. And then you'll feel good about that, and it's like a positive circle thereafter. Yeah.
Speaker 0
Doctor Waughenny. Oh, sorry. I will tell you quickly. As a side fire, though, Waughenny, you were on, I don't know if you saw our newsletter this morning. We're recording this, obviously, about a month before it goes live, but, we were talking about sleep divorce.
Speaker 2
And then
Speaker 0
we were like, but maybe we just need to reframe it as doctor Wogany Filate. Yeah. And, we talked about your shared sleep Path sleep plan.
Speaker 2
Action plan. Yeah. That's in the book too. That's in the book. Good. Brilliant.
Speaker 3
Thank you so much. Always great to chat with you. Such important valuable information that, you know, is evidence based and trusted and well, we love you guys. We love you and Loom Thank you. All your people. So thank you for coming on.
Speaker 2
It's always such a joy seeing both of you and talking. I we could do this all day. I could do it all day.
Speaker 0
We could.
Speaker 1
But could we? We do have to sleep at some point.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, there's that.
Speaker 3
But we will do it again.
Speaker 0
Yeah. Amazing. Thanks.
Speaker 2
Thanks
Speaker 1
so much for listening to the show. If you like what you hear, please subscribe and write a review.
Speaker 0
So more women can find us and get a better understanding of what to expect in perimenopause.
Speaker 1
This information is not intended as medical advice. The intent of this information is to provide the listener with knowledge to support more efficient and effective communication with their medical provider.
