Episode Transcript
Speaker 0
Today's episode is such a good one, ladies. We sat down with relationship expert and founder of KMA therapy, Kimberly Moffitt. She has spent almost two decades working with couples. And so this conversation was honestly such a fun and different take on relationships because we got into things like sleep divorce, why it carries so much stigma. We talk about snoring. We talk about scrolling at two AM, like all the things. And Kimberly was just so easy to talk with and so generous with her insights. I know that I walked away with a whole new perspective on my relationship. This episode is also part of our reclaim your rest with Endy Sleep series. And if you haven't heard the other episodes yet, I really suggest you go back and listen now because we have covered everything from why sleep falls apart in perimenopause to the sleep wake connection, the science of deep sleep, and what to do if you're not sleeping. Sleep keeps showing up at the center of so many of the conversations we have on this podcast, and that's why we partnered with Endy. Because sleep is not just a small piece of the puzzle. This is perimenopause, so sleep is basically like a whole puzzle. And so without further ado, here's our conversation with Kimberly Moffitt right after a quick word from our Endy sponsors. This episode is brought to you by Endy, Canada's leading mattress brand trusted by over one million happy sleepers. Now we often think of sleep as a personal health habit, but it actually has massive impact on our relationships. From how patient we are with our partners to how emotionally present we feel. A good night's rest shapes how we connect. Endy is built to support these stronger relationships. Their thoughtfully designed mattresses feature breathable cooling gel foam and motion isolating layers that minimize disruption. So even if your partner is tossing and turning, you still get the quality rest you need. Because when you sleep better, you show up better for yourself and each other. Learn more at n d dot com. That's e n d y dot com. Welcome to the show. Oh my gosh, Kimberly. We are so excited to have you here. We've been following you for a little while, and, so many you're it's magical. Thank you for coming on the show today.
Speaker 1
Oh, it's my pleasure. I'm so excited to have a discussion on something that I think is really important.
Speaker 0
Well, and something that probably people don't talk about enough. Like, I I'm very interested to hear what you know, when as a relationship counselor, what people are coming in to see you, and they're maybe damaged. They're struggling. They're snapping at each other. They feel disconnected. And, I think that they're thinking it's, you know, because, you know, my husband's chewing too loudly or maybe he doesn't listen to me. But I feel like there's a lot of underlying things that, a lot of couples probably aren't even aware of. So can we jump in and just jump in right there and talk
Speaker 2
about Let's
Speaker 1
do it. Yeah. Absolutely. Let's do it. Okay.
Speaker 0
So from all of your years of clinical work, what are some of the underlying factors that couples might not be thinking that could be impacting their relationship that are actually, causing some of the friction that they're ex feeling.
Speaker 1
Well, there's a lot of things I feel like when when people come into our clinics at KMA. And so just just for your, knowledge as well, I don't personally work with, clients anymore, but I did for many, many years. And now as the CEO of the company, I see I see, like, kind of a broad range of people's issues when they're coming in. And so it's actually really cool to be sitting in my seat because you get to see what issues are bringing in to therapy sessions and what are they talking about and at what age or what stage of life do certain issues appear. And so I have this database of, like, thousands of relationships and as as well as correlating that with studies that I know about and and things that I've seen happen over the years and trends. And so one thing I mean, there's a number of things that impact people's quality of relationship over the years. Of course, things like and, setting goals as a couple and making sure to spend time together alignment on things like raising children and careers, those things as well. But something that doesn't get talked about very often is hormonal changes and sleep and how and and and how kind of the daily habits and daily, changes in each person impact their temperament, their mood, and as a result, their relationship. And I think those things go very underplayed in terms of, in our even our work in therapy where if someone comes in and they don't have a good night of sleep, it kind of just destroys their ability to communicate. So, so I know that today's topic was supposed to be sleep, and I know that, I've just seen, like, sleep play such an important role in Canadians' relationship lives. So
Speaker 0
Well, fair. It's, it's one of those things that you kinda you wake up in the morning, you think, oh, I didn't sleep. I'm I'm having a bad day. But you don't really I I don't anyway. I don't normally think about how this is now going to impact everyone around me and the storm that I might be creating. So, yeah, I think it's probably a much bigger issue than most people suspect.
Speaker 1
Oh, definitely. Definitely. And I feel like a a lot of people start complaining about sleep quality. And I mean I mean, there's a lot of different things that impact sleep as well. Mhmm. It's like having babies and having schedule changes and, you know, one person's work being different than the other. And then as people age as well and we you know, with with the topic of perimenopause as well, people's hormones change. So, you know, maybe they feel super hot in the night and they don't wanna sleep in the same room as their partner or one partner snores really loud and it's just impact everybody's ability to sleep. Actually, that was, like, the number one thing in the ND study. This the snoring was, like, Canadians rated snoring as their number one sleep concern, and so that's why, they ended up getting a sleep divorce. So sleep divorce is when you decide to sleep in different rooms from each other. Yeah. I found that really, really interesting, and that's just completely that's completely in line with what we see in clinical practice.
Speaker 0
I'm sorry. What is this ND study that you're referring to?
Speaker 1
So it's actually a really cool study that was done by ND Canada. They did a a national survey that studied Canadians, and they they wanted to understand more about Canadians' relationships and sleep habits. So, the number one finding that they had was that eighty four percent of Canadians believe that sleep is important to a relationship, which I think is really interesting because I feel like ten to fifteen years ago, even in my own work, I don't think people would have said that at all. I I I know. It's really surprising. Right?
Speaker 0
I I would say it's important to my life. But, again, I like, I wouldn't I no. I wouldn't I still wouldn't say it was important to my relationship, but I I yes. Now that I think about it. A hundred percent. And me as well.
Speaker 1
Like, I I feel like I fall apart if I don't sleep. And I I sleep more than probably most people. I so I work at nine o'clock in the morning, and I have all kinds of help because I'm so sensitive. Right? If I don't get a good sleep, I'm just a mess. Yeah. So always been really like, I've really been proactive about that in my own life, but I just don't think people, like, over time have prioritized sleep. And now as people I think there's been a collective waking up of people everywhere in terms of their health, their relationships, even other more broad topics because of things like TikTok and the information that we have nowadays, which is really cool because I think now people are saying, wow. Actually, sleep impacts my health overall, and I might need to pray words out of it. So
Speaker 2
So eighty four percent say that sleep is is important. And is there any was there any further questioning as to of that eighty four percent? Are they doing anything about it? Are they do they know how to do anything about it? Or were there some top solutions?
Speaker 1
So what we do know is that people felt it was important. We know what the top concerns are for Canadians. So think so snoring was number one. Sleep preferences, like sleep disturbances, or or something else like kids walking in and things like that. Temperature was another really big one. Mhmm. And motion control. So if someone's, like, really, like, moving around a lot in the night, that was one of the main concerns. They brought Andy brought me in to kind of give advice and talk about, like, how to deal with it. So that's that was really fun work to do to be able to, like, give advice on TV programs and things like that about how to connect. Because I think what I see in practice is that people this is actually quite an awkward topic. Like, if if you're not sleeping in your relationship for whatever reason, whether it's perimenopause or or menopause or or snoring, it's actually, like, quite uncomfortable to go to your partner and say, like, look. You snore really loud, and I can't I can't sleep. Right? As much as you might joke about it to actually say, oh, I'm not gonna sleep in the same bed as you. There's a sensitivity that we have.
Speaker 0
I I will tell you that this is exactly what happened in my relationship where I was I would go to bed at night with my husband because he got upset otherwise, and then I would get up in the middle of the night, and I would go to the other room. And I finally was like, but, dude, like, babe, I love you, but this like, now I'm inconvenienced every single night. And so I started sleeping the other room, and now he's got a mouth guard that is magical and it stops the snoring. But he was really, really upset about it, and and I didn't think anything of it. I just said, oh, I'll just go sleep in the other room. It's fine. But, yeah, it's it's interesting.
Speaker 2
That is interesting. Is that common?
Speaker 1
It's really common.
Speaker 2
The the upset around it? And I will I will be I've had I've had a sleep several years now. Was the best thing ever? Although, I think a reconciliation might be possible. I just got an Indy mattress of my own.
Speaker 1
Oh, okay. I had
Speaker 2
It's been amazing, and I'm actually thinking, okay. Maybe we can but I will say this. The number of people, like friends, acquaintances when they find out who are like, really? Is that and and almost wanting me to give them permission Mhmm. That it's okay. So sorry. I've I've I've No. That is practice, but is that common?
Speaker 1
It's so common. And, actually, the for the same reason, I actually just got my parents an empty mattress, and it was one of the hybrid ones with, like, the two, like so it's basically, like, different on each side because she Yes. And I was like, guys, you don't need to suffer. And it was the same situation. Like, my dad would leave in the middle of the night because he would be rolling around and didn't wanna wake up my mom. And so finally, I was like, guys, it's worth it. Like, just get it. You know? And your and, like, your quality of life is so important. And so we did, and now they're really happy, and they're they're
Speaker 2
Uh-huh.
Speaker 1
They've met. So I think that what I can see from couples is an overwhelming desire to be in the same room and a and a feeling of deeper connection when they are. Now that's not to say if you're in separate rooms, like, it's it means anything about the quality of your relationship, but I think what we just see is deeper satisfaction when people Mhmm. Find a way to actually be connected in that way. It's just something people enjoy.
Speaker 2
I think I will say this. There are in our busy lives schedules, it's hectic. There's kids. There's whatever. You name it. It's probably happening. And there are not that many opportunities to find anxiety. Right? Yeah. And so I would definitely say that that as much as both my husband and I are fine with the sleep divorce and, like, we're both terrible sleepers, so that's also a big part. It is it does You're missing you're missing that one. You're missing the single.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Exactly. It's it's those little conversations. It's the intimacy. It's the cuddling. It's it's all of those little things that I think we take for granted, and we just don't get those opportunities if we're in separate rooms. And so, again, it's not, like, necessarily a bad thing, but it's just those key little little moments that you miss. But I think, like, what and I think the reason why this discussion is so important, though, is to remove the stigma and say at the end of the day, like, a good quality sleep truly outweighs anything else. And if you're not good sleepers, like, some like, it it's okay to say, look, we really need to just prioritize our sleep. And so, but I think what people often miss is that middle point where they say, okay. We're just, like and truthfully, when I see couples, it's like they're so frustrated that they're not sleeping well together that one night they just throw in the towel, and it's usually in a really, like, heated emotional frustrated way. And they're like, I'm just not gonna do it anymore, and then they're in separate beds from then. But they haven't they haven't had, like, the conversations. Right? They haven't said, hey. I'm not sleeping. Like, what can we do about it? Like, what's the middle point where we can actually come up with solutions together? And so that's I think that's the conversation that needs to be happening because sleep divorce doesn't is not the outcome that everyone has to have. It's more like, you know, that's one option, but there's other options too. So Yeah. It's funny because
Speaker 0
we had this moment. It was, Christmas many, many years ago, and I like, we had guests over, and so we only we didn't have beds available. And I was like, by, like, night three, I was like, you have to go sleep in the basement. I don't get to sleep. Like, it was just like I was like, I'm done. I need to sleep tonight, and you need to leave. And he was he literally went and slept in, like, a rickety old basement on, like, a rickety old couch because I lot oh, yeah. I lost it. But
Speaker 1
Oh my gosh. And what's what's the issue that you have? Is it snoring? Is it moving around?
Speaker 0
It's snoring, which is why the mouth guard has been very handy. But yeah. And, I mean, I'm sure I I get hot. I kinda whip covers back and forth. I'm sure that bothers him a little bit, but he tends to not complain as much. I also have a dog on the bed. So Oh. I can't I can't blame it all on him, but I can try.
Speaker 1
I I actually it's funny. I have a seven year old son. Like, my daughter's twelve and my son is seven, and I sleep in the same bed with my son. I'm I'm a single mom. I've divorced a couple years ago. Yeah. And it's so cute because once in a while, I'll get, like, a little foot in the face. Yeah. Can't be going on forever, but it's so cute. So cute. I love that he's there. You know, I could hear him I can hear his little snore, and I can hear his little like, it's just so smooth that it is, like it's that feeling of being connected that I just Yeah.
Speaker 2
So sleep divorce then, and as one who's been doing this for a few years now, are there do you counsel against it? Is it you how you get there that's important? Is it better to not? Like, do you have any do you have any advice or wisdom around, you know, people sleeping arrangements in the context of the relationship?
Speaker 1
Say, like, for for me personally, I don't counsel against anything. You know? For me, it's about, like, every couple is so different. It's all about what solutions are right for you. And and in the end, everybody chooses something different, and the right thing might be different for each couple. So I try to caution against saying, like, there's a one there's one solution for everybody. I think it's about the way you get there. So, like like you said, I think it's about, you know, if you are having issues, it's way, way better to talk about them and say, how can we solve this together? Just like anything else in life, whether it's your finances or your kid's schedules or, your careers, you know, if there's something big and it means something to you and you and you wanna make a change around it, you know, having the conversation and being able to be heartfelt about it and and I think if your partner truly cares about you, they're gonna wanna fix the issue. And so, Michelle, your example was so good where it's like, oh, now he has a mouth guard, and he did the things. They're necessary, right, to to make it happen. But I think but but not a lot of people are open to suggestions. Right? Like and and this to me, that's a red flag. Like, if I'm working with a couple and one one person says I'm exhausted, I'm not sleeping, and the other one is like, deal with it, I think that's a relationship red flag, and that's to me showing that there's not, like, you know, collaboration and compromise happening. So, I always wanna see that in the context of a healthy relationship. It's just people talking and making sure that everyone feels heard and everybody feels safe. It's like I
Speaker 0
I feel like
Speaker 2
there are a lot of couples though or scenarios that I'm aware of where they just it's hard to broach this topic or there's someone who's sensitive about, you know, something about their sleep habit being brought up or they don't wanna sleep in separate beds. Do you have conversation starters or tips or things that you suggest? And and I'll just I'll just preface this by saying, I recorded my husband's today. Me too. And he was like, I'm like, mhmm. But which that's something I wouldn't advise that. I wouldn't advise that. That's just the kind of relationship we have and it you know, we're we're very open and honest, but I feel like I feel like there are a lot of people who probably need some help having starting this conversation. Is that fair?
Speaker 1
It's a hundred percent fair. I think it's it's nerve wracking. And then, again, it's not just about how you communicate. There could be people that are excellent communicators. But in my opinion, because this topic is so taboo, like, it there is still some kind of stigma around it. I guess because we've heard our parents say, oh, you have to sleep in half like, the same bed to be a couple forever. And it's like this, you know, this idea that we have, like, what a perfect couple or a perfect relationship means. And so anything that's outside of that, we think is abnormal even if it's even if it's totally fine. You know? It's almost like we have to give ourselves permission. I think one stat that's really interesting from the MD study is that seventeen percent of Canadians already sleep in separate beds. So it's, like, regardless of whether it's people are doing it anyway. Mhmm. So it's whether it's, like, voluntary, it's negotiated, or it just happens because they get fed up, that it it is happening whether whether people like it or not. I think that if someone is struggling to talk to their partner about it, you could I mean, there's there's different ways. I would suggest not, like, not being passive aggressive or not doing something that would make them feel bad about it, but rather, you know, sitting down for, like you know, some some couples have meetings. Some couples have, like, heart to heart talks over dinner, and they could say this is really bothering me. I really wanna fix it. And if your partner is is serious about, you know, you and takes you seriously, I think that, you can have a heart to heart conversation. Sometimes a therapist can help navigate those types of conversations because therapists, I mean, we see it all the time. Right? So they are a little bit more skilled about normalizing, you know, just how normal this is among couples and saying, you know, lots of couples go through this. Like, let's try some solutions that are right for you. And then I think that can help the person that's in the person that's actively detracting from everyone's sleep, there's usually one out of the two. And so it can help that person, like, not feel guilty and just normalize what they're going through a little bit more.
Speaker 0
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Speaker 1
in the little details because it could
Speaker 2
be
Speaker 1
something it could be I mean, exactly that if someone's scrolling. For me, it would be, like, I remember being married. And if someone was in the bed and I knew that they were gonna leave, I would be so anxious so I couldn't fall back asleep if it was gone. Because I feel like when are when are they leaving? When are they going? Go. Weird thing. But, like, for me, I was like, you need to get out and get out now. Like, so it could be any little quirk. Right? But I think the key is just being able to identify, like, what is it that's really bothering me and how can we support each other? Because sometimes it's just as easy as, like, a quick little fix. Right? And then everyone's sleeping again. So, but we noticed that when people do start sleeping again, we can actually have more difficult and more productive conversations around just about anything. So
Speaker 2
No kidding. I I wonder, you know, I don't think I understood, the impact that sleep deprivation had on me until perimenopause Mhmm. When it was atrocious. And then I was like and then started understanding the impacts to health. What have you I'm wondering you know, we both said at the start of our conversation that neither of us really considered what kind of sleep deprivation made us. Mhmm. Do you have do you have any insights into, you know, what that what sleep deprivation or poor sleep does to your ability to be a good partner? Some things that like, we know that we're maybe a little bit irritated or irritable and maybe, you know, not as sharp as usual. But are there are there other impacts?
Speaker 1
Oh, it's hugely. It's it's a huge impact, not just to your mental health, but it's your ability to emotionally regulate. So triggers like, if you experience a trigger in your day to day life and you're sleep deprived, the trigger is ten times stronger. So, like, your reaction to that trigger, it might not even be really who you are, but your but your reaction is like you're not yourself when you're sleep deprived. And so, you know, whether it's you you have babies and I I know I was extremely sleep deprived after my babies and now also in perimenopause. I am in the beginning of my journey and just like exploring all Welcome.
Speaker 2
Welcome.
Speaker 1
To see that by the way. It's awesome. And so, yeah, it's it's exactly that. It's I think the key is, yeah, no matter no matter what, the issue is, that yeah. Just being able to be open about it and talk about it and all those things.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I often I often wonder so I think this applies to sleep as well. But in the context of prayer, a lot of women go through a lot, And the chaos is real, and the challenges are real, and the whole body impact is very significant. And where is the line between my partner needs to give me grace because I'm going through all of this, and I'm just now a shitty partner. Excuse me. Right? And and I've heard the same thing about sleep deprivation. Where's where's the, you know I don't know. I don't know. I I'm I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. You know? When when do you say, hey. Can you just give me give me some space? Because I haven't slept in however long, and when am I just being a jerk? And I need
Speaker 0
to I think
Speaker 2
it's good to go and figure it out. Do you know what I mean? Does that make sense?
Speaker 1
It makes sense.
Speaker 2
I'm very sleep deprived right now, by the way. I'm I'm across the street.
Speaker 0
She flew she flew all night. She hasn't slept.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So my apologies. I'm a little Oh, you know what? No problem. Vodka. No. I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1
No. I think that a lot of grace is is necessary, but it's not just perimenopause. I think that marriage and life and long relationships, there are all kinds of reasons that we need to give our partners grace, and we need to say it's, like, not who they really are. They're going through something. And menopause is one of those, like, really long journeys. And and, I mean, in in my experience with just about any woman, whether it's in practice or friends or anything like that, it it can take a while to kind of figure it out and to get get used to it or, you know, get on whatever meds or whatever program works for you. And so it's not like a a Band Aid solution or an overnight fix. It's something that can carry on for years, right, until, you know, until you feel better or you until you're so I think I I think it's totally okay to say, like, can you please give me a little grace here? I'm sleep deprived. I'm angry, and I honestly don't understand what's happening to my body. Like, a lot of this is hormones. Right? It's the same like, consider being pregnant, how that would impact your hormones or your your ex, how you get all hopped up on hormones and everyone's all, you you know, emotional. It's like it's you have to understand that this is a major change happening to your body and, you know, your moods are just gonna have happen accordingly. Right? It's just a part of it. And so, I think part of the challenge with women because you said, when am I just being a jerk? Like, my my answer to that is, like, you're probably not being a jerk. I think as women, oftentimes, we need to give ourself more grace instead of less and just say, like, actually, you know, I'm a pretty decent human being. I'm kind to everyone I encounter, and I do my best, and that's really all I can do as a person. And anything beyond that is out of my control. And so I'm gonna do the best I can. I'm gonna communicate the best I can, and that's just about it.
Speaker 2
I think that's a a light bulb for me. So, I've been working with, a coach through portal, which is a new relatively new online menopause.
Speaker 1
Oh, that's cool.
Speaker 2
Mhmm. And, the the coach is is fantastic, and, the gist of what we've been working on is self compassion. Mhmm. And it is this is not something I'm very good at yet yet, and I'm working on it. But I will say my ability to be less reactive, to be, better able to handle sleep deprivation like I am today is so much more significant now that I am actively practicing self compassion, which
Speaker 1
Love that.
Speaker 2
Is something that is I mean, it's taken fifty three years, which
Speaker 0
is Right.
Speaker 2
I don't know if that's tragic, common,
Speaker 1
you know, the above.
Speaker 2
But, yeah, I think I think you nailed it when you right? If we can just realize that we're human and yeah.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And and that's fantastic. I think but often, I feel like with women, we're always told to put ourselves last and to save. And and also because I think because menopause was so taboo for so long, it's almost like nobody knew what was going on and everyone changes and nobody talked about it. And to say, like, something's wrong with me as opposed to actually this is something that literally every woman in the world goes through and it's medical and it's real and it lasts a long time. So to be able to say, like, look, actually, I can take a day off or I can I love that word self compassion? So it sounds like that's really helped Mhmm. To be able to say, hey. Like, I'm human. I'm okay. And, and this is actually a very normal thing that I'm experiencing, and tomorrow will be a a better day.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. K.
Speaker 0
This is probably a whole other podcast, but gray divorce. We haven't talked about this yet, and it's something I wanted to talk about for a while. Do you find that there's a surge of divorces amongst women in that perimenopause? Maybe not quite gray. Maybe we just color it. Yeah. You
Speaker 1
know what? That's
Speaker 0
is that a thing? I haven't been asked that
Speaker 1
per se before in that way, but I do think that there's been I don't wanna say an increase in divorce. I think what I have seen over probably the last five or six years is there is definitely a wave of women who are waking up and saying, wow. I can't believe that I that the way society made me think about life and what the the point of life was and the way I've structured my life is the way I actually carried it out and what am I doing. Maybe this isn't for me. And so I I think just with the rise of feminism and and awareness about gender roles and things like that, and I think it's largely positive. Right? You know, seeing people say, wow. I really wanna take my life into my own hands and make decisions that are right for me as opposed to what my family or what my grandmothers wanted me to do. So I'm seeing a rise in that, and it's not just in marriages. Mhmm. Well, saying, you know, I want something else for myself for my life, but it's actually with young people as well in the way that they date and the way they approach relationships now. And that's I think that largely explains why a lot of young women today are remaining single, but also, you know, in the context of relationship, deciding not to have children or not doing it in a in as traditional a way. And I kind of love that because I think, you know, if we can be more empowered as women and make choices that are right for us, I can't I don't think that can be a bad thing. I loved it.
Speaker 2
But well said well said.
Speaker 0
What is the one thing you would love every woman to know about perimenopause, sleep? Maybe we what is the one thing you want couples to know about the relationship and sleep?
Speaker 1
If there was one thing, I would just want to normalize it and say it is very normal to have sleep issues in your relationship. Most couples do at some point. Like and if that seventeen percent of people that are sleeping in separate bedrooms, those aren't the only people having sleep issues. Right? So I would say if you're having, like, if you're having issues with your relationship and sleep, you're not alone. Right? Like, that's very, very important. But also, you know, if it's related to perimenopause like you asked, I would just say, like, you know, also that's very normal. And, and if anything, I think research and information is empowerment. So if you're going through something, just know like, your feelings are never not valid. So if you're feeling something and you're feeling alone in it, talk to someone. Ask you know, I mean, with kids, especially now, or young people, I'll just say ask ChachaPT. You know? Like, if you can't ask, let's just ask. Right? Ask. Yeah. Give us an answer. And if you're feeling it, there's it's usually not something wrong with you. It's usually you're feeling it for a reason. And the more you can, like, put that into words and find solutions, the more empowered you will be to take matters into your own hands. So that's probably the best answer or that's the thing I would want people to know is, like, everything is figureoutable.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It was
Speaker 0
really it was an absolute pleasure to have you on the show today. Thank you. We, we've been really excited about this one, and I and, I know that Andy was really excited to have you come on board, and, it's been it's been great. Thank you.
Speaker 1
Oh, thank you so much. It was so nice meeting you guys and hearing your stories as well.
Speaker 2
Thank you. Likewise. Thank you so much. Thanks so much for listening to the show. If you like what you hear, please subscribe and write a review.
Speaker 0
So more women can find us and get a better understanding of what to expect in perimenopause.
Speaker 2
This information is not intended as medical advice. The intent of this information is to provide the listener with knowledge to support more efficient and effective communication with their medical provider.
