Episode Transcript
----Speaker 0
I've got some exciting news. I've just signed up for CORAL, and I can't wait to get started. CORAL is a virtual clinic designed for women in midlife. They provide personalized evidence based care that supports every woman's unique journey in perimenopause, menopause, and the years beyond.
Speaker 1
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Speaker 0
So because my menopause symptoms are mostly under control right now, give or take, I signed up for their healthy aging program and that focuses on preventative wellness. I am desperately looking for help with things like sleep, mental clarity, energy, strength, and making confident choices about what my body needs as I age because I'm getting older. Coral gives me data driven expert guidance so I don't have to figure it out all alone.
Speaker 1
I am so jealous you get to start before me. Yeah. Coral isn't in Alberta just yet, but they're coming soon, and I'll be the first in line.
Speaker 0
Well and so you don't feel left out, Mick, I will be sure to share my Coral journey with you and our whole community. I'm actually starting this week with comprehensive blood work and their in-depth questionnaires so I can get a very full picture of what my health is. Because, you know, I'm a bit of an oversharer, I will be sure to give you updates as I go
Speaker 1
through it. Yes. You do love to share. And speaking of sharing, we've got an exclusive code for our listeners who are looking for support for their perimenopause symptoms. Visit coral dot c a to learn which program is best for you, and then use code tip five, t I p five, at checkout for five percent off. That's t I p five at c o r a l dot c a. Time to get the midlife care you deserve.
Speaker 0
So, Mikael, I feel really terrible saying this, but I have been dodging a friend all week, and it's not you.
Speaker 1
Bitch. Better not be me. But seriously, like, what what do you mean? What's going on with this friend?
Speaker 0
Like, oh my god. So she keeps, like, can we get together for coffee? Can we go for a walk? Can we do this? And, yes, I'd love to see her, but the truth is, I know that it's just gonna be her unloading all of her shit on me. My marriage, my kids, my parents, my like, it's drama, drama, drama all the time, and it's like, I'm the designated dumping ground. Fuck.
Speaker 1
That sounds exhausting.
Speaker 0
Yeah. It is. Like, my thirty minute coffee with her last couple weeks ago turned into, like, two hours, and I walk away, and I'm completely drained. I'm completely exhausted, and I've got nothing not that I need to get anything out of it, but I'm barely keeping my own head above water. And I'm just
Speaker 1
you feel guilty for not wanting to do that?
Speaker 0
Well, yeah. Like, as much as I know that this is not fun and this is like, I should be okay. But, yeah, the guilt kicks in. I was raised Catholic. Like, then I start thinking, like, I'm a terrible person. Why am I, like why why she needs somebody. Why shouldn't I be there? Like
Speaker 1
Right. You know what, though? It's it's I think you probably feel like you're being selfish. And it's you're not being selfish. Right? And that's what we learned in our chat with, doctor Christine Lateroot. What did she call it? Appropriately self focused.
Speaker 0
Right. Alright. I do and I do like that. I'm probably self focused.
Speaker 1
She she was really eye opening for me. Like, I'm not a bad person for protecting my energy, and also that my energy is expensive. And why am I so willing to give it away because of this irrat I'm gonna call it irrational guilt. Right? There's there's an equation here. Like, the banker in me is like, oh, yeah. I get, like, expensive dollars, money. Like, okay. I'm starting to get this equation. Right? And what the value is of my energy and that maybe I shouldn't just spend it like a drunken sailor all the time.
Speaker 0
Right. And I guess, like yeah. No. You you like, great point. And I guess even, like, maybe my friend needs to spend a little money herself on, like, therapy or something because, like, I can't beat that. I can't do it. I like, maybe I need to, like, pull myself out of her equation and start my own, like, equation for myself.
Speaker 1
Like, I don't Yeah.
Speaker 0
Well and there's a Sex and
Speaker 1
the City episode about this. Right? Where they all, like, call Carrie on. We can't talk to you about big anymore. Like, we're you need professional Yes. Help. So okay. It's not just you and me. It's also the Sex and the City ladies. But, yeah, I think, like, getting the proper support. Right? So, like, with someone like doctor Christine, the team at Loom Women's Health, they're amazing. They're actually and they're gonna be at the National Menopause Show in Toronto. Excited to meet doctor Christine and see, you know, Wageningen and Sarah and and,
Speaker 0
Doctor Amy.
Speaker 1
Amy. Sorry. Doctor Sarah, doctor Wageningen, doctor, yeah, doctor Sarah. All again, October eighteenth and nineteenth? Amazing?
Speaker 0
Yeah. It's gonna be so good. That's coming up really, really fast. And, we have our tickets, of course, but the tickets are so reasonable again. This year, it's two days, and the tickets virtual or, in person. And, like, what way better investment than the endless coffee dates with drama moms. Like, I gotta say.
Speaker 1
So good. Well, let's get to it because doctor Christine, had some pretty eye opening things to say about how making space for ourselves isn't a luxury and why we struggle so much with boundaries. So let's get into it because this is perimenopause.
Speaker 0
Doctor Christine, we've heard you say that real revolution starts with women making space for themselves, and this seems so simple and yet it's kind of a radical idea. Please tell us what you mean.
Speaker 2
Sure. Yeah. The the idea that that kinda came to me, was just in the context of, starting my work at Loom where we're asking, you know, women to kind of invest time and and effort and energy and and money into their well-being and their health care. And as we've been getting going, it's kind of occurred to me that it's a little bit of a tricky audience in a way, especially in the area of midlife women, to get them to do that because we have to, as midlife women, stop and actually think about what do I need? Like, what is going on with me? What health care might I seek out? What mental health care might I seek out? If anything. And to do that, we have to stop and kind of check-in. So and I don't know how many women do that. Maybe especially women in midlife, where there's so much going on or we just haven't really been socialized to do that. And so, yeah, that's kind of where I came with that idea that I feel like almost the real revolution is to help women learn to stop, make space for themselves, consider what they need, so that they can actually like, we can empower them to then come in and benefit from our services.
Speaker 0
You said a couple things there. One, we're so disconnected from our bodies, from everything that we don't even know I think that's, I think that's really a difficult thing for a lot of women to even pinpoint. Like, what do I need right now? And then, honestly, when you say, like, finding the time, like, I am feeling so much anxiety right now. I've got a lot of emotions happening. I'm trying to sell a house. My son just went off to university. I'm just there's a lot, and I have so much anxiety, and I and I know that I need something. I just don't even I just don't even know how to do it. What what you're saying and what you're proposing is so very important. Just for someone like me who doesn't even know where to start, like, how do I how do I start that?
Speaker 2
So I think about it I guess there's different ways you can think about making space for yourself. So I'll just kinda like touch on them and then then I'll talk about the main one. Like, the main one that I'm talking about when I'm when I'm talking about making space for yourself is about this idea of, investing in your relationship with yourself really or or building a relationship with yourself, which really just means connecting with yourself, which really just means turning your attention inward instead of it always going outward. So all those examples you just gave are absolutely real things going on in your life that need all of your attention. And they're all outward. Right? Like selling my house, my son's starting university. So they're all pulling for your focus to go out. And all I'm saying is, okay. And you also matter, in the mix of all of that. And how can we start to kinda notice, right, I also need to turn some of my attention inward and connect with myself. Right? Like, how am I feeling about my son going to university? How am I doing with selling my house? Right?
Speaker 0
Not well. Not well. This market sucks anyway.
Speaker 2
Right. But even that, right, it's kinda like, okay. So, like, I'm not doing well with selling my house. Like, this market sucks. And I think, you know, most people would be like, okay. But so, like, what what do I do about, I don't know, advertising my house more or whatever. And what and, yeah, that's all maybe necessary. And at the same time, I would say, okay. So how are you going to check-in with yourself given that it sucks right now for you that you're selling your house? So how are you just gonna notice? Like, what are my feelings about this? And actually pause to give yourself space. Maybe if the market sucks and you're feeling anxious as you started with, or you're also feeling anxious because your son's away, maybe you need to check-in with yourself and kind of regulate your breathing and just notice, like, where's my breath at? Where's their tension in my body? And these all maybe sound like really little things, but that's kind of my point. So, like, I'm not saying to make space for ourselves. We have to hold take a whole day and devote it to ourselves. Like, great. If you can, awesome. That can be part of it. But I'm talking about doing this or starting to do it in really small ways every day, which might literally even be, like, with all this chaos going in my life, how am I doing? And then actually noticing what do I need? What am I feeling? And trying to give yourself some of those things. How are you gonna show up for yourself, as a friend in your life? Like, how are you gonna stand beside yourself in your life, and show treat yourself in a way that shows that you matter to yourself?
Speaker 0
You know what? And I'm I really love what that you just said. How how are you gonna treat yourself like a friend? Because the things that the way we treat ourselves, the way we speak to ourselves in our head, like, all of those things, I would never say to Mikel or to a friend the things that I say to myself. That's that's that just really resonated.
Speaker 1
That's also what's come been coming up for me. So we, especially in midlife, we start to experience, I'm gonna say like a new level of discontent or a discontent that become is very unfamiliar or scary or strange, and we also berate ourselves. Right? There's that negative, oh, stop. You shouldn't be feeling this way. Is that just Michelle and
Speaker 0
I in charge of Christine
Speaker 1
or in your clinical practice? Is that
Speaker 2
Yeah. No.
Speaker 1
No pressure, but
Speaker 0
Yeah. How messed up are we?
Speaker 2
Of course, it's not just you two. I mean, it's really, like, sadly, unfortunately common among women and part of what I'm talking about with this idea of growing your relationship with yourself. So making space for yourself in sense of making space for the relationship with yourself is also about how do you talk to yourself and so can you build in more self compassion? So I I often tell people a quick way into self compact self compassionate mindset is to start your sentence with the words, of course. So instead of saying, oh my god. What's wrong with me? Like, I shouldn't be bothered by this because, like, of course, it's a bad market or, like, of course, like, my son is old enough to be in university. Right? You know, start your sentence with, of course, I feel really anxious, because that's a lot going on, a lot of big things going on. These are, like, life changing things. And they're new and they're unknown and so, of course, I'm feeling anxious. And so knowing that I'm going through my days feeling a little bit more anxious, how am I going to be mindful of that and show up for myself and maybe focus on my nervous system and and kind of meet myself where I'm at, as a friend? So how are you kinda gonna support yourself as you go through the stuff that you do in your life as opposed to just not even knowing noticing what you're going through?
Speaker 0
Do you know when you said those you said the first sentence, I feel anxious. I feel stressed because, of course, the market is whatever. And then you switched it. Of course, I feel anxious because I felt it different in my body. Just hearing you say those words, it felt different in my body.
Speaker 1
Amazing. I often also find that if I can't get the the grace that I need from somebody else, then I even I become like hyper independent. Then I'm just like, okay, fine. I then I'm just gonna dig in. Can I'm not sure I'm making any sense, but there's something coming up for me here. Can you can you unpack that a little bit?
Speaker 2
Yeah. So let me ask you, like, in your hyper independence, what how does it show up? Like, does it show up, like, okay. Fine. Like, you know, I can't get grace from anybody, so I just land a soldier on? Or does it show up as like, okay. Well, now I'm gonna give grace to myself?
Speaker 1
Oh, no. I'm just gonna so I'm I'm just fine. I'll do it all. Yeah. I'll be the murderer. I'll be the right? It's very unflattering. Not a great trait. I I guess what I think what I'm asking is, how does one learn to give themself that grace and that that, of course, message when it is not innate and they only seem to be able to do it when someone else has given them permission to do it?
Speaker 2
Yeah. So so this is actually touching on, like, another way to think about making space for yourself. So, like, if for some people that's not really totally resonating, the idea of having a relationship with yourself, although it's like really important. So I'm happy to talk more about that. Maybe it resonates more to think about, making space for yourself as shifting out of autopilot. So I think that's what you're starting to touch on. So I think for a lot of women, in particular midlife women, autopilot is self sacrificing. Right? Like autopilot mode or default mode is self sacrificing, kind of like what you're touching on martyrdom. Okay. Like, I guess it's just me then. Right? And I guess I just default back to that and, like, then I'm miserable basically. So back to the kind of discontent, I think is how you worded it, in the beginning. Right? Of of kind of women experience this discontent. I think it's about that comes back to the disconnect from self. So when we're disconnected from our self and what we need and what's going on for us, it like, yeah. It's miserable. Right? When we're when we're in this autopilot of self sacrificing, like, well, we're nurturers and we're supposed to be nurturing everybody. We're supposed to be nurturing, like like, our kids, our partner, our colleagues, whoever whoever needs something from us. But then when we need grace, we're expecting, well, other people are gonna nurture us. Sometimes we're lucky, and we have great people in our lives who do that. If we come into a circumstance where we don't, like, you're looking for someone to give you grace and they didn't, it's now your responsibility to do that for yourself. So, you could fall into the autopilot of, oh, yeah. Like, I guess, there's just none for me and just kinda keep emptying my cup. Or you can make space for yourself and recognize, okay. Woah. That really sucks. Like, I needed grace and nobody gave it to me. And that feels hard. And so how am I gonna give it to me? What do I still need it. I still need grace. Right? Like, you're checking in with yourself. Okay. How might I give it to myself? You know, the proverbial cliche idea of emptying your cup, or filling your cup so that you have more to give. What I'm wanting women to do is fill your cup so you have more to give to you, not so that you have more to keep giving out. You can still give out, but how much do you want to? How much do you have to give? And can you give some to yourself, if that makes sense.
Speaker 0
It's kinda like trying to find that line for for, the line between being selfish and being appropriately self focused. Like Yeah. That that that seems a little daunting to me to figure out where that line is. Is it is it something you feel? Is it like how do we figure out what that line is?
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, I I think that's a great question because I think, it ties into we're socialized to feel like, oh, if we, you know, give too much to ourselves, that's selfish. We're socialized to feel like we need to be nurturing and giving to everybody and that's our autopilot. So part of making space for yourself is starting to be like, hold on, like, wait a minute. I've been socialized to do these things. Do I agree with these things? And do I think I'm being selfish? Right? Selfish has such a negative connotation, that word. But we have to be selfish at times in life. And so I I love that you use that term, as I use it all the time with people, appropriately self focus. When people have struggle with this idea that, like, it's okay to be selfish, I just change it and say, okay, can we talk about being appropriately self focused? We're still humans. We still have needs. And when we don't when they're not getting met or when our feelings are not getting addressed, we become disconnected from ourselves. We become discontented.
Speaker 0
And so I think we
Speaker 2
really have to define that line for ourselves as part of actually making space to reflect, like, what is my line? Do I think I was being selfish or somebody else maybe they think I am in this moment? I disagree. You're allowed to disagree with people.
Speaker 0
Yeah.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And then I think learning learning to exist with having disagreed with someone is challenging.
Speaker 2
Or them not understanding. Yeah. Like, you know, another thing that I I've had to work on myself and also, try to help people or work on is not everybody's gonna get it. Right? And, like, not everybody's buddy is going to understand your choices because no one else is living your life and nobody else is you. And so you really have to understand, like, in this moment, you know, do I feel that I'm being selfish? And even if I am, is it okay? Like, is there actually, like, a really good reason for that? Like, I really need to because I'm depleted or do I really need to just because I don't know. It's time for me. I need something today. Right? It doesn't have to be like, oh, I get to the point of depletion and now it's okay.
Speaker 0
It it's interesting because I've been really protective of my energy this summer just because I have been extremely anxious about all these things going on. And and there are certain people that I I've kinda, like, and put up a barrier. I'm putting I am limiting my contact with them because I know that they're emotionally draining for me, and I know that I don't have the capacity to deal with myself and my family's energies that I think are more important. But I do go through moments of guilt about that and, you know, anyway, I'm I was raised Catholic. Guilt is nice.
Speaker 2
Ditto. I get it. Ditto.
Speaker 1
So how do you what are some of the tools? I don't know if this is appropriate or not, doctor Christine, but, you know, as a result of giving ourself grace and setting boundaries that a lot of people probably don't like or aren't going to like or are gonna even push back against. How do you, counsel your patients to to sit with that, to become to learn, to build some resilience around being okay with, yeah, these people are not gonna like this, and it's okay for them to have those feelings. Help. Asking for a friend.
Speaker 0
Yeah. Asking for a friend. Mikael and I turn all of our podcast into therapy sessions now. It's awesome.
Speaker 2
I love it. I love it. No. I appreciate that. And and, you know, listen, I'd like, maybe I can use a a personal example because I don't I never wanna kinda come across as, like, you know, I'm this mental health professional and I just intellectually know, like, all these things that women are supposed to do and and so I'm just here to tell you what they are. I like to talk about things that I've learned from the inside out. I was going through a separation and divorce and and I had to protect my energy. I had to, do exactly what I had to protect my energy. I had to, do exactly what you did this summer, and think about, okay, what do I need, to be able to function in my day and my way to, you know, still do what I need to do and to be okay. And, yeah, sometimes people ask things of me and I couldn't do it. Or other times in my life, like, sometimes people ask me, like, when I had a a, you know, new baby, my neighbors asked me, can I look after their house while they go to Florida for the summer after the winter? Sorry. And I was like, I don't think I can because I I just I I don't have that emotional bandwidth, like, mental bandwidth to think about their house, go over to their house, look at their plants, make sure their door is locked. Like, I just couldn't do it. I just didn't want that responsibility. And so I don't know. Like, were they maybe not okay with it? Maybe. Like, did it maybe inconvenience them? They had to find somebody else. Maybe. But I also the expenses are always gonna be inconveniencing yourself. And so that's what I try to focus on. When I think about is somebody not okay with this, you know, the flip side is usually that I'm not gonna be okay with it. And again, back to my relationship with myself is that I matter, as well. So I'm not saying the other person doesn't, but I also do.
Speaker 1
When you use the word the expense, you know, if I may if I choose then to make them comfortable because they've expressed that they are not comfortable with the boundary that I've set, then that's at my expense. That was that's a little that's a light bulb for me. Right?
Speaker 2
Yeah. And it's at your at the expense of your energy, like your emotional expense.
Speaker 0
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Speaker 1
Go to this is perimenopause dot com to subscribe and join the thousands of women who have realized they need and deserve better. In so in your in your work, at Loom, which is an incredible space to help, women navigate their health and their their whole health. Are there common things that you see in that particular environment in the context of the challenges that women come up bump up against in midlife. There is all of the physiological things, and there are the potential solutions like medications, etcetera, to help with that. But the cornerstone of all this is actually the work we each need to do, and I think you said it best earlier on when we first started talking, was to you said rediscover, I would argue, build a relationship with ourselves because I think most of us have never done that. Is that is that kind of a universal theme for for, you know, this age and stage?
Speaker 2
Yes. In my experience, yes. It's not to say that there aren't women who are really self aware and have really done their work. But I think so far, yeah, like, at the risk of overgeneralizing, I'd say I'm seeing that as a bit of a theme. It feels like, you know, women are like, okay. So, you know, give me some tools. Like, give me some strategies. Right? Everybody wants, like, quick. Fix this
Speaker 0
Quick. Fast.
Speaker 2
Right? And I get it. Like, it's all it's also that's the world we're living in. Right? Like, we can like, everything is fast. Everything is quick. Everything is instant. Everything is immediate. We don't have to be patient. And so, you know, I I always say tools and strategies have their place and that's fine. Like, we can use them, but it's kinda like constantly putting a band aid on something. So if you wanna not kinda keep putting this band aid on or if you kinda want to not keep using these tools and strategies forever, then we we need to have a deeper conversation and get you connected to yourself and get you connected to what's really going on. Because when we, you know and when the the work I do in my private practice, the therapy work, I'm doing depth therapy. And my my passion is always to get to the bottom of things of, like, why, you know, why are you anxious? What's going on there? And there it's there's usually way more to it. And I always tell people when we get to the bottom of it, it will always make psychological sense to you. It might not make, like, in this moment, logical rational sense. But when we get to the bottom of it and you understand yourself and why this is happening, it will make psychological sense. And now you have something to work with. Like, now we can now you're actually working with yourself and your experiences and how things have impacted you and how are you going to show up for yourself and see yourself through it now as opposed to just, like, slapping on Band Aids.
Speaker 1
Depth therapy. Can you just tell us a little bit about what that is? What that looks like?
Speaker 2
Yeah. It it looks different. There's all there's so many types of therapy and I'm trained in in many different types. So, like, the way I practice is kind of integrating all of those types of therapy. But, like, in a traditional sense, depth therapy is more about looking at the whole person. So I'm I'm I'm maybe talking to you about something that's going on right now in your life. But I've also, when I first met you, done an assessment and gotten a sense of what's your history? Like, what's your upbringing? What's your childhood history? What's your social history? What are some experiences that stand out in your life? And try to make connections to how your psychology may have developed and been impacted by the key people in your life, key events in your life, and how that might be showing up. Like, let's say, for example, in your current day, anxiety. So we're not just saying, okay, you're anxious. So let's give you ways to cope with your anxiety. We're saying, but why are you anxious? Like, yeah, maybe you're anxious because your son's starting a new adventure. But, like, is there more to it? And usually, like, if people are, you know, they've never been anxious in their life and there's, like, a one off situation. Like, my son just started university. Okay. That makes sense. Like, sometimes you just it's just normal to feel anxious. But if there's a propensity to feel anxious, for example, about many things, a lot of the time, there's something else going on.
Speaker 0
I I so, like, I I know where my anxiety with my son, like, there's the dialogue in my head. Again, if we wanna go into Michelle's therapy, but the dialogue in my head is what if he doesn't have a good experience?
Speaker 1
What if
Speaker 0
he doesn't make any friends? What if what if what like, and all of that comes back to me thinking, like, my own inner child insecurity, whatever, about the need for people to like me. And, like, like, I but it still doesn't ease my anxiety. But I I I maybe maybe there's something deeper there too.
Speaker 2
Sometimes just naming it, it's, like, it's usually not enough. Right? It's usually not enough.
Speaker 0
Yeah. Not enough? So so it's funny too because I I Loom. Like, I I I I knew that there was a full team of experts. Do women automatically get to come see you too as part of their do I have to raise my hand and say, I think I need some help. Or how do people get to to see you?
Speaker 2
Yeah. So so anybody can see me, like, in the sense of, I do consultations at Loom. So, anybody can go online, go on the website, and and call and book an appointment with me, which would be more like a consultation appointment. So at Loom, I'm doing more consultations in the sense of it is more of kind of like a an overview. Like, you're dealing with something specific. Let's talk about it, and I'll give you I will give you some tools and strategies kind of in the consult of here's how you might deal with this. But then I might also say, you know what? It sounds like this would benefit from some more, like, deeper work or right? Like, more than just this consult. If you're interested in therapy, then, you know, maybe may we might work together in in private practice. But people could also potentially see me when they do, the full day health assessment. We just did a trial, like, so that's a little bit in the works right now. We just did a trial where we included me, like, so you see all the different professionals.
Speaker 0
Do you know? I think that's genius because I think so many women that come to Loom are thinking about more the physical symptoms. And I don't think that it would have dawned on me if I had gone to Loom that I needed to see you as well. But hearing what you're talking about, like, the value of that, huge, and possibly, like, the key to all the physical. Not the key, but in support in support, there's a big impact.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's not unrelated. There's a big impact and and, you know, in in fact, like, research has shown the connection between physical, mental health and physical health.
Speaker 1
There's a big impact. Right?
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I'm biased, obviously. So but I I'm there's always an emotional impact. Right? If you think about emotions as energy, right, that we are storing. So it's kind of hard to talk about emotions because they're abstract. But if you think about emotions as the kind of energy that are getting stored in our body, so the way for them to get released is for us to feel them, process them, and then they dissipate. So kind of like how little kids are able to do. Right? Little kids aren't socialized out of feeling. Little toddlers feel. They feel big emotions. They feel it in their body. They release it and then they're actually feel better. Right? They're actually okay after that. As adults, we get socialized out of out of doing that and so we're kind of stockpiling emotions unless we're working through them, unless we're somebody who's really good at talking about our emotions. We have supportive people or we go to therapy. We're stockpiling and so the energy your body has to do a lot with that. Your body has to contain it. Your body has to your mind has to redirect you away from certain things that might touch on that or that are painful. So it's kind of like, you know, sweeping dirt under a rug for years and years. There's gonna be a mound in your rug. You're you're not gonna be able to have the same use of that that room, that space. You have to, like, rearrange your chairs. You have to step over the mound. Right? It's gonna be uncomfortable when you lift the rug back. There's dirt there. It's the same as emotions. And so yeah. When I it it has been really, really interesting to see, this is through the personal health assessment, which is, kind of like a five hour in-depth assessment of your health, to do that pilot where these are women who aren't really seeking me out, wouldn't necessarily have chosen or even thought to see a psychologist. And now as part of their day, they have, like, thirty minutes with me. And it was really interesting to do that. And one woman gave, feedback saying that, you know, at the beginning of the day, like, if she had a choice to opt in or opt out, she probably just wanted opted out of the psychologist part. But because it was a pilot and I was, like, I was in there, she was coming. She, she actually said, this is exactly what I needed today, and I feel so much better. So, yeah, it was cool. I agree. There's totally a connection, between emotional health, physical health, like, no doubt. I love that.
Speaker 1
I don't know if this is possible or not, but could you teach us, like you mentioned, just paying attention to breathing. Like, is there an exercise you could teach us about how to start learning to take up space? Because I think for most people, they think self care, and they think about getting their nails done and
Speaker 0
Bubble baths and candles.
Speaker 1
And there's nothing wrong with those things, but then it's almost even more frustrating because then you show up the next day at whatever, and you're still just as anxious and you're still just as overwhelmed. You're still gonna be like, but I did date for myself. Yeah. But that's not what you're talking what what what needs to happen. Right? This is a different type of, this is it's work.
Speaker 2
But it but it doesn't have to be hard. Right? So, and so I agree. So all that all that stereotypical self care stuff, that's still useful. There's still a place for that. If that's a way of making space for yourself, great. Do it. But what I'm talking about is the stuff that you can do every day. Yeah. For example, breathing. Sure.
Speaker 1
I
Speaker 2
can show you a breathing breathing that I use. And I just wanna talk to people about it as, you know, if your day is let's say you're going from meeting to meeting to, I don't know, school pickup to, like, sports to whatever it is. Yes. And right, and you're making dinner and, like, you're getting groceries, all that stuff. You could do all that stuff and never think about yourself all day and just be like, as you're doing that, your nervous system is escalating escalating escalating escalating escalating. Right? So another way to think about making space for yourself is, okay, let me check-in, like, with my nervous system, with my body, with my breathing. And so another way to go through that day is you have your meeting, and maybe you have another meeting. Maybe it's right back to back. But can you take thirty seconds, ten seconds, a minute, and just be like, hold on. Before I click onto this meeting or before I go into that room, I'm literally going to just pause, check-in with my breathing. So even as I'm talking to the two of you, my breathing is up here, like, in my chest. Like, it's shallow because I'm active. Right? So I try to connect with my body. Like, I would put one hand on my chest, one hand on my belly, and I try to envision, I'll call it wave breathing. So I try to envision really slowly or I do it breathing through my nose. I can't really do it as I'm talking to you, but I'll show you. And you're trying to get your breath either into your chest or ideally into your belly. And you want, like, one of those hands to raise. Like, you want your chest to raise or your belly to raise to show that you're getting in a deeper breath. So that's why I'm I'm kind of envisioning it like a wave. Right? Something's coming and it's rising. And then you hold it and then you force a long exhale. So, you know, you kinda put one hand here, one hand here, and then just really slowly. So I can't even do it that slow right now because I'm active. And if you're anxious, it'll be the same. And you might just need to give it a good amount of time. But then when after I hold it, I'm gonna force it out. So you kinda feel your body going concave a bit. Like, either your stomach is sinking in or your chest is sinking in. So it's kinda like a wave motion kinda coming in and either filling your chest or your belly and then pushing your chest or belly and and then coming out slow. And if you do that two times, three times, it doesn't have to be a lot. It's still you checking in how am I doing? Where is my breathing? Where is my nervous system? What do I need right now? Maybe you need more than a couple of breaths. Maybe you need a sip of water. Maybe you need to make a note that what happened in that meeting was really upsetting. I'm going to talk to somebody about it later. I'm going to write about it later. I'm gonna check-in with what am I feeling if I don't have time right now. Was I angry? Like, was I, hurt? Was I whatever? Instead of just going about your day completely ignoring yourself all day.
Speaker 0
Shouldn't shake it off. Taylor was wrong.
Speaker 1
Thank you. We just did that breathing exercise. I didn't even realize how tight my chest was and and anxiety sitting there. And that is a residual from I paid no attention to myself yesterday at all. Full full day, and nothing bad happened. It was actually a pretty good day. A lot going on, but I did not pay attention to myself. And I think I've it's just been accumulating into and now it's not nearly as tight and intense.
Speaker 2
Awesome.
Speaker 1
But I didn't even realize it was. How pathetic is that?
Speaker 2
No. No. Now you're judging yourself. So if you apply self compassion Oh. And you start your sentence with a force
Speaker 1
judging. I'm writing this down right now. Of course.
Speaker 2
Right? Of course, I didn't notice because I haven't really learned to check-in with myself yet, and now I am.
Speaker 1
Ah, so good. And simple, but hard to I think hard to note it. Hard to re hard to come to the rec hard to recognize this, but then also put it into practice. Right? You've really gotta work. I'm gonna have to really work on this
Speaker 0
to build the habit. Yeah. It's hard to take pause.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Or, like, you just, you know, leave, like, post its in like, in your car, in your different places, just like your post it could be, like, pause. It could be breathe. And then you can go from there. So even what you just said. Right? Okay. I so I now did that breathing. I I don't know. We spent, like, seconds on that. Right? Not long. But even that was enough for you to notice. Oh, yeah. Like, I'm really holding a lot of tension in my chest. So then, like, let's say if we had like, let's say if you had more time in your day at right now, you might be, like, get curious about that. Like, What's that tension about? Right? So you could you could just stay with the breathing or you could go a step further. Like, what's that tension about? Like and I love that you said nothing bad happened yesterday. Like, it was still a good day. But, yeah, like, we can still ignore ourselves and still be kind of in this, tense state. Right? It doesn't have to always be that things are bad. It could just be that things are busy or just that, like, we're tired or it could be that things are exciting and it's kinda draining us. Right? It could be that, like, good stuff's happening and we're still kind of like, woah. There's there's so much, coming at me even though it's good that I'm kind of, like, holding energy or holding emotion. Just try to be curious, not judgmental. You know, you want the space that you make for yourself to feel safe. You don't wanna make space just so you can beat yourself up and be self critical.
Speaker 1
But I'm so good at that, doctor Christine.
Speaker 2
I know it it feels easier. Right? Yeah. It's not easier. It's just a habit, and it's something that you can change.
Speaker 0
So good. So many important messages today. Thank you, Christine. That was, like, another great therapy session from a. Much appreciated.
Speaker 2
My pleasure.
Speaker 0
I think you've given everyone a lot to think about, but I would love to know what is the one thing you would love every woman to know about taking more space for themselves perimenopause?
Speaker 2
I think just it's that it's essential. Like, it's not a luxury. It's just actually a necessity. This is not a luxury that we're aspiring to. Like, oh, one day, you know, hopefully, I'll be able to make space for myself. As one of my friends said, like, when I'm retired, like, no. No. No. It's essential. I I want women to take away what I learned, that, you know, there's times as I was going through the separation where, like, I wasn't okay. And I still had to be a mom and I suddenly, you know, found myself a single mom. And I had to figure that out. Like, hold on. Like, something's gotta get here. Like, I can't just, like, you know, keep doing this and this and this and making dinner. I I actually need to take a moment. I need to take space for myself. And then I can go and make dinner or whatever I need to do. And I actually had to learn that that, you know what? I sometimes need to come first for the benefit of my kids, for the benefit of of, you know, what I'm doing. And so it's essential. And also it's doable. Does it take some, you know, a little bit of rewiring your mind to be like, wait a minute. Right? How can I factor myself in today? Yes. But this is doable. This is not like, we could we did that in a few seconds and Mikael still got something from it. Right? It's not like we need to be having this, like, life changing event every day, but it's just about checking in with ourselves. So it's essential. It's not a luxury. It's doable. If I can do it, you can do it.
Speaker 0
I love that. And, you know, I was just thinking as you said, like, you took that time when you were a single parent. And I bet you that even though maybe at first, the kids were like, or our partners might be like, really? You're gonna but I think once they come you step back in in that relaxed, calm state, they recognize how much value there is in that as well.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And that's the thing. Right? So, you know, when we're, engaging with other people, it's like our nervous system engaging with their nervous system. And so what I realized is that when I was just trying to be like, oh, but I'm okay and like it's dinner time so I gotta make dinner. But maybe I was really sad. Like maybe I just honestly needed to go to the bathroom and cry or maybe I needed to lie down or whatever. Because I wasn't sleeping. I was exhausted. You know, one day, I just remember saying, you know what, guys? Like, I know it's dinner time, but mommy's really tired. And, like, I need to actually lie down, and I'm gonna set the timer on my phone for, like, fifteen, twenty minutes and then I'm gonna make dinner. Are you hungry right now? Like, I'll give you snacks. If not, I'm gonna be back fifteen twenty minutes. And I realized that because when I wasn't doing that, when I was just like kind of trudging along trying to do everything, I was irritable. I was exhausted. I was agitated and guess what? Then my kids were irritable and agitated and right? What I realized is, that what they really need most is for me to be okay and I also really need for me to be okay. It's gonna inconvenience people again but when you don't give yourself something you need, you're inconveniencing yourself. So there's always a choice. And, you know, can I guess another way to say it is I would want women to think about choosing themselves sometimes? Right? Because when you're not, you're still choosing something else.
Speaker 0
Mic drop. Yeah. Yeah. That's some really sage advice. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1
Thanks so much for listening to the show. If you like what you hear, please subscribe and write a review.
Speaker 0
So more women can find us and get a better understanding of what to expect in perimenopause.
Speaker 1
This information is not intended as medical advice. The intent of this information is to provide the listener with knowledge to support more efficient and effective communication with their medical provider.
