Episode Transcript
Speaker 0
Hey, everyone. Welcome back. This is part two of our conversation with Kyla Fox from last week. If you missed last week's episode, definitely go back and listen because we covered a lot of ground.
Speaker 1
Oh my god. Like, way, way lots of ground. It was fascinating. And you know what I thought was the most fascinating is, how Kyla shared that eating disorders show up in our lives without many of us even realizing. And I I would say that that's true for me for sure. But also, and super true for everyone probably listening, that perimenopause is often a trigger for disordered eating because your body is changing and nothing seems to work anymore.
Speaker 0
Right. So this week's, part two dives into some more interesting things and some really practical stuff like how to actually break these patterns and maybe most importantly, how to model a healthy relationship with food for our kids.
Speaker 1
Oh my god. I wish I'd had this conversation, like, ten years ago.
Speaker 0
But Yeah. Ditto.
Speaker 1
Ditto. Yeah. But the truth is this is very menopause.
Speaker 2
I lost my mom in January after a really awful battle with cancer.
Speaker 0
So sorry.
Speaker 2
Thank you. I appreciate that. I really do. And and so much of my own eating disorder was tied to my mother. So when I was struggling in the early years of my life, in my late teens and early twenties, her and I did a ton of work together to really confront so much about our relationship that was really rooted in so many of my beliefs about food and my body and just my worth. Mhmm. And it was like, you know, all throughout my life when I became a mother, that stuff resurfaced again for me, not the eating disorder, but the stuff with my mom. And then when she was sick and then I lost her, it, like, resurfaced again. So it's not to say that I didn't do the work in my recovery with her. It just had different meaning for me as I was evolving. And sometimes I feel like we think, been there, done that, put that away. It's over. But it doesn't necessarily mean it's over. It just changes in terms of what it means to us as we grow and change in our own lives. And so I think that's always really important to remember that we are differently shaped by the things that we're differently shaped by as we are evolving.
Speaker 0
Yeah.
Speaker 1
Kyla, like, I'm like I don't even know.
Speaker 0
Yeah.
Speaker 2
I think sometimes, you know, when people think, oh, Kyla is an expert in eating disorders, so we're just gonna talk a lot about food in the body. You know, one of the things that's really revealing is is just how much our relationship with food is really just about, you know, our life and our and our sense of self and our sense of worth. And, those are the really scary things and the important things to look at.
Speaker 1
Kyla, the people that come to the center, like, now I'm thinking, I was like, can I please come and spend some time with you? And, like, do I need to be again, when I think about eating disorders, I think someone who's being hospitalized and and, you know, like, do I need like, how do how do you accept patients? How do people come to how can I come?
Speaker 2
So so the truth is is that, we work with anyone and everyone who just, you know, wants to improve their relationship with food in their body and wants to experience perhaps a level of freedom and safety that they've never experienced before. And that may mean that you identify as having an eating disorder and you know that you need really pertinent help. That may mean that you wanna work with certain parts of our team or not and explore different pieces of your life. You don't actually have to be diagnosed. You can self refer. You're just making a decision to say, you know what? I'd like to I'd like to explore this part of myself differently. Like, and it just starts really simply by having consultation. And that allows us to really understand just what you've been dealing with, what's going on in your life, you know, your relationship with food in your body, your relationships in your life beyond food in the body, the things that matter to you. And then from there, we we essentially there's different ways forward in terms of designing a a plan of care that would work for you. And it's really important to me and to the team that we we find something that works for each and every person.
Speaker 1
Who's on your team? Like, is it, like, therapists, obviously, but is there
Speaker 2
Therapenists therapists to do, work around individual therapy or couples therapy or parent only work if your child is suffering, for example, or family work. We're big on bringing the system together. Mhmm. I think that's, you know, that's something that people aren't always ready for at the get go, but I think, eventually, that might be something that we integrate over the long term if it if not right away. We work with people nutritionally, and that isn't just like, you need to eat this and not eat that. It's really more about understanding each and every person's rules and rituals with food, helping you to understand them. Why do you do the things that you do? Why are you not allowed to eat that thing? Why do you only eat that thing on Saturdays?
Speaker 1
Wait. Why do you have the J
Speaker 2
You know, whatever it may be with food, and then we work together to figure out how do we bust down these rules and rituals, and we do it on a lot of different ways. Some people at the center have regulated meal support with us. It's like symptom interruption. It's sort of like, if you have patterns of binging, purging, and restricting, then we actually eat with you regularly throughout the day. And we do that in kind of a one on one experience. It's very therapeutic. It's not voyeuristic. It's really more about, like, sitting with people through those times, and it's not a long period of time, but it's a it's a it's an important and, like, planned and mindful experience to sit and eat and process. And often people skip out on that if they don't have that accountability, or they won't complete the meal, or they'll think that they have to compensate for it in other ways. So this kind of care that we provide just allows people to, like, learn how to be in a rhythm with eating, which is something that binge burden restrict doesn't let us do. And and and truly, actually, it's something that I would say most people do not know how to do is to eat regularly throughout the day and to eat in a satiated way.
Speaker 1
Well, this is yeah. So I'm a big, a big huge fan of Gina Levy, and, shout out Gina if you're listening. But this is what she has taught me is, like, no. No. No. Don't scroll. Like, don't like, focus on your food before you eat. Like am I hungry do it like how hungry am I and really like figuring out when you're satiated and that's a big like I've been doing this for a while now and I still half the time can't figure out like am I actually really hungry like I we're so disconnected from our bodies we've just it's
Speaker 2
Well, I think that's really true. We are. Like, we don't have a mindfulness experience when it comes to food because we're all just moving so fast, and we wanna avoid things. But I also think that when people have eating disorders and disordered eating, you actually don't have the ability until some time to be able to even tap into those cues because they don't exist. Because eating disorder tendencies wipe those things out. So if you have if you have patterns of binge purchase, right, you don't know when you're hungry, and you don't know when you're full. Like, you don't actually. It's a very real thing. So, like, to rely on your body to give you that information is a real challenge. So it's part of the part of developing a, like, sort of a pattern of regulation allows us to ignite those messages in different ways that we've maybe just over over been overriding because of eating disorder truths. Right? Like, you need to not, like, you need to not eat this whole thing. Well, like, are you really not hungry? No.
Speaker 1
It's eating disorder telling you to restrict. So we have to just, like, decipher that. Yeah. So so I'm so curious. Mikael's sidebar now. Like, so I've been really challenged with this. Am I hungry? Am I really hungry? Am I satisfied? I don't know. Mikael's doing the program now. Are you able to decide because I don't feel like you have the same relationship with food that I do, Mikael. I feel like yours is much healthier. Are you are you able to figure out if you're full or hungry or, like
Speaker 0
I'd I'd say, yeah. Probably more readily. And I'm also I think I'm also able to say, do I really want this entire bag of chips at nine o'clock at night? Or am I upset about something and this is gonna help me soothe? Mhmm. And sometimes I'm like, fuck yeah. I am so fucking upset. I am not hungry, and I am gonna sit down and eat this entire bag of usually salt and vinegar potato chips.
Speaker 1
I just wanna soothe. I just need to soothe.
Speaker 0
Yeah. And I think I'm successful in that. I'm able to do I don't do it all the time, but I can do that. I can allow myself that, and then I cannot hate myself for it afterwards. Right? And can you
Speaker 2
eat them in the morning and then eat breakfast, which is critical, right, and not have to restrict for it?
Speaker 0
Or get on the treadmill, you know, because, oh my god. I you know, I'm just like, okay. Yeah. That happened, and it I know why it did. You know, I went through a phase where I was restricting food because I felt so lousy, and nobody could tell me why. And I happened upon a functional medical provider who was like, well, it might be this, it might be this. So I was like, really? Took all the stuff out. I think maybe that and and I don't know how how healthy that was or how good that was, but the point I think I'm making now is that I've reintroduced most of that. And I and I feel and I feel good. As much as I don't know I I don't struggle maybe the way you are, Michelle, I would still say that I have definitely struggled with food and and used food and exercise and my body and how it is showing up or not showing up for me, and either punished or pushed myself with those things. So the I mean, it just it's mind boggling for me having this conversation. And, and so I think we've gotten really off track, Michelle, with where you were at. Yeah.
Speaker 1
Sorry, Kyla. You didn't know it was gonna be a therapy session for us, but this is why we have guests on the show.
Speaker 2
Sorry. It's an organic conversation, and I actually think there's something really important about, like, realizing things in real time. Well, and can
Speaker 1
we this kind of maybe is a good segue, and we're probably it's I don't know. Again, it's organic, but this healthy eating. So Mikel took everything out because everything was bad, and now she's reintroducing it because that's good. But, what is the Michaela, you'll remember the word for
Speaker 0
Oh, there's there's an eating disorder. Was it orthorexia? Orthorexia. Tell us about orthorexia. This just kinda I I was gobsmacked when I read this on your website.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Me too. No idea.
Speaker 2
So orthorexia, really is defined by, clean eating and really making sure that, you know, maybe you're eating the highest quality ingredients or just very, specific foods, reducing any non whole foods, and just being very, very preoccupied with clean and, quote, unquote, healthy eating. And to the point where, like, it overtakes you and you can't function or be in the world, like, like, that would be in an extreme way. That said, I do think, like, we generally live in a world where, like, that would fall under the terms of certain diets and diet culture. We we can a lot of people can have these rituals around very clean eating and cutting certain things out. Yeah. Now I will say there are some practitioners based on the practice that they offer. Like, they have this sort of belief that, like, we should eliminate everything and then sort of see what your body can and cannot tolerate. I think when you struggle with an eating disorder or disordered eating, this can be a really problematic methodology because it's an invitation to restrict. And I think a lot of practitioners, if you're not in the world really in the niche of eating disorders, they don't necessarily know what to ask to learn if you have an eating disorder. They don't necessarily recognize that what they're putting out as a recommendation is actually incredibly dangerous to someone with eating disorder. And let's be serious. A lot of those tests will show up for most every single person is having some intolerances to different kinds of foods, and they're not necessarily always accurate. But if you've had an eating disorder and restricted yourself from certain foods for a long time, the likelihood is that you will have an intolerance to some of them. And this is, like, part of the process of recovering and integrating. Is like your body starts to learn how to be with foods in different ways when you learn how to have them more regularly over time. So I just wanted to sort of add a little note to that piece, Michela, you were saying, which is, like, you know, maybe for someone in your situation, this was fine. It didn't, like, throw you off the rails and you know? But when you have an eating disorder and you're so accustomed to restricting and you are essentially invited to do this and told it's, quote, unquote, healthy, this can be very dangerous. And sometimes it can actually even lead to eating disorders and disordered eating because, like, people start to feel so afraid of certain foods, and they they don't know what they should eat and when. And
Speaker 0
Yeah. I would assume, Kyla, that then calorie restriction also falls into this. Yes. And it's dieting and, you know, I think there's a lot of messages out there which are okay. You're perimenopausal. Your weight has changed. The only way to deal with this is through calorie restriction. And so what's the like, what's your message for our listeners out there who are absorbing these messages? In tandem with that, are medical providers saying you are perimenopausal, how you manage symptoms if you have them? There are a variety of tools in the toolkit, but exercise, eating whole foods, focusing on those things are considered, part of the prescription from most medical providers. So where maybe do you have some, like, red flags for people to pay attention to in the context of their response to those recommendations? Like, when is like, I think for some people, maybe managing how much you're eating in a day is a good idea. But when does it become a problem?
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's, again, it's all these blurry lines. And, you know, I just feel like you can go to a million people, and they'll tell you maybe, you know, count your calories or take this thing out of your diet or exercise more. And, you know, like, that's the messages of diet culture and fitness culture. And to some degree, they might, you know, they may have value for some people in different ways, but I think they're missing the bigger piece, which is, like, why is your relationship with food and your body so challenging? Why does it where are the places that you feel like you're not in control? What has been your history with food in your body? And then also all the big questions that we've been asking today is, like, what's beneath all of this? Like, that this, at the end of the day, is such a primary focus that you cannot look away. And I'm not suggesting that we should just, like, you know, live and feel really unhappy in our body, but I do feel that if we don't focus on the other things that have gone on in our lives and the things that are going on in our lives, then I think we're missing a huge mark on how to have a better relationship with food in our body because they go together. They go together. And being told to be in a calorie deficit is only gonna lead a person to binge. So to me, it feels so counterintuitive to say you need to restrict because when the body is in famine, it leads to feast. And that isn't teaching anybody about regulation. That isn't teaching anybody about being safe with food. Actually, it's a setup because I think when you're told to do that, that's terrifying. It's like, how much more can I cut out? What do you mean I can't do the fun things in life? Oh my god. What about this thing that's coming up? And I wanna be able to have ice cream with my grandkids, and I wanna go there. But whatever it is. Right? It's like, why does it always have to be about punishment?
Speaker 1
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Speaker 0
Go to this is perimenopause dot com to subscribe and join the thousands of women who have realized they need and deserve better. Before before we go any further, I'm wondering because I don't wanna miss this. What's the maybe you could tell us, Kyla, what the difference is between an eating disorder and disordered eating.
Speaker 2
It's blurry because I feel like we probably not probably. We do live in a disordered eating society. Diet culture supports disordered eating. It tells us about ways to binge purge and restrict in order to be happy in the body that you want. And so we often are unaware that some of the things that we might be doing are disordered. They are binge purge and restrict because we're told we should, and so they're normalized. Now when does it bleed into becoming an eating disorder is a question up for grabs because I would argue that, you know, maybe people think about eating disorders as being more acute in the sense of, like, people who, you know, can't really function or they're so absorbed in these patterns of binge purge or strict or they're physiologically in very dangerous places, or, you know, like, maybe it sort of speaks to a level of intensity that someone might be suffering. And I'm not sure about that because I think often disordered eating is incredibly preoccupying. It's deeply intrusive. It literally sabotages a person's ability to be in their life safely. But maybe because they're high functioning in the world and they, you know, they have a family or a job or they show up or they do all these things. They look fab.
Speaker 1
Yeah. On the outside, yeah, they're perfect.
Speaker 2
On the outside, it all looks so great, but I would argue that that's the that's the greatest deception of eating disorders is that you can't look at someone and necessarily know if if if they have an eating disorder. And the suffering happens in so much secrecy and so much silence that you often wouldn't even know that some of the most highly competent, seemingly capable, you know, like, beautiful whatever.
Speaker 1
They're not a hot mess like me. They've got their shit together. I do.
Speaker 2
I mean, I just think, like, you can never look and see. You can never know. And so I I suppose, Mikael, to get back to your question is, like, there really is a spectrum and, like, when do we cross over? I'm not sure there's a clear line. It's a question that people ask me all the time, like, what's disordered eating? What's eating disorder? I suppose it's just something that you should ask yourself. Like, what is the level of preoccupation that I have with these rules and rituals that I have to follow? How much do I think about my body in a day? How much do I think about food? How much do I look at other people and think about their body and their relationship with food?
Speaker 0
Good answer. I think to you know, we're all for all the parents listening, right, we're all striving to pass on as little of our of our mess and trauma and all of those things as possible. And maybe we could talk a little bit about this, like the the eating disorder, disordered eating. And I know if you're comfortable maybe in the context of your own experience, Kyla, that would be really helpful. You know, is this something is eating are eating disorders, disordered eating genetic? Do you pass it on? How do you how do you, when you're struggling, try to model. Right? Good behavior. Like, how do you not like,
Speaker 1
we're messing our kids up twenty times a day anyway, but
Speaker 2
We're all trying our best. Let's just remember that list. Trying our best. And our kids are going to move through all kinds of things because of us and not. That's the real truth about being a parent, period. Now I feel one of the things that's been really interesting to me about being a mom so I have two daughters. My daughters are ten nine and
Speaker 0
ten.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
And, I think, like, the the greatest part of my healing has been in having them. Mhmm. It's, like, shone a light on me in a way that I never understood before because I know how much our children watch us.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
They're sponges to our experience because we're everything to them until we're not, but we are so long. Right? And then and then they spread their wings and get out of the world. But one of the things I will say that I I found to be incredibly fascinating is, with my girls, I was very worried about, like, how to nurture a really healthy and safe and regulated relationship with food for them. And I was I didn't know I mean, you know, even though I'm in this world, I like, it it was it was it's been a it was a scary thing. It's not anymore, but it was, especially when they were little. You know? Like, what do you feed your kids? Like, what are you supposed to do? Are they allowed to eat that? What do you have in the house? What do you not?
Speaker 1
Yeah. When they go to the birthday party, do you say no cake?
Speaker 2
Like, no cake. One of the things that I think we need to remember is, like, when children are born, granted, like, they're growing up in sort of a safe environment, is that, you know, infants have innate hunger and fullness. Like, as human beings, we are naturally born with these cues. Those cues become disrupted because of our environment.
Speaker 1
You can't eat now because you're gonna have dinner soon. You have to eat everything on your plate.
Speaker 2
Five more bites. You can't have that until you finish that or you know, all of this messaging that we do as parents with, like, fully formed brains in adult bodies, and we do not know what our children need. In fact, if we leave them a little bit more and just zip our mouth and observe, we actually will learn about what they need if we give them space to do it. So I think as parents, we just need to back off.
Speaker 1
Can you imagine if your baby was crying and you're like, oh, well, no. No. Like, I know you're you're this is your hunger cry, but you just ate, an hour ago, and I'm I wanted to feed you in three hours. So sorry. Like, no. No. Like, we would never do that to a baby. And yet as soon as they start eating solid food, we're like, hey. This is now we're at three meals a day, and this is
Speaker 2
Yeah. Like, sometimes, you know, like, in infants, toddlers, you know, young kids, like, sometimes they eat as much as an adult or more, and sometimes they eat one bite. And that has nothing may maybe to do with anything except they're just in tune. And we just kinda come around and disrupt because we have a
Speaker 1
Shut that shit down, which is awful.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I I feel like my philosophy as a mother, was has been just to really observe observe more and recognize what's happening to me, in my desire to maybe want to control or lead or have opinions. And I I think as a mom, I became really curious about my kids. Like, one of the things that I think was also really helpful is family meals are really a huge part of our family. We do them as much as we possibly can. I recognize this changes in terms of schedules and all kinds of stuff can be so wild. But, family meals have really acted as an opportunity for our family to come together around food where you realize, like, food isn't necessarily the star, but it's a component of connection. And we all eat the same things. I'm not, like, on the sidelines eating salad. I'm eating what my children are eating. I'm also not giving my kid kid food. I'm, like, if you will, I'm giving them my food. I'm giving them we have sort of, this idea of, like, when you put out when you model what you want your kids to engage in food, they will. They actually will. Sometimes I think we get into these other patterns where it's like, oh, they won't eat that, so we'll always give them this other option. And then and then they're just gonna go to that option instead of opening up their palate and understanding different things. And and I feel like when families can eat together and they can eat the same foods, like, albeit, like, allergies or things like that, which I can appreciate, I think it creates this sort of, like, unification, and it it it spends less focus on, like, differences and, you know, what's good or what's bad. Like, if mom doesn't eat that thing, like, should I? Like, why doesn't she? You know? So I think we we we don't even necessarily we're not even really aware all the time of the messages we're giving when we're giving them. So I like to sort of recommend that people just parents maybe just observe a little bit more and actually have family meals when it's possible as much as it's possible and eat in a family style way. Maybe your kids won't often grab all the things you want them to, but you can really allow them to, like, try. Just, like, be curious. I don't know. Maybe you're gonna like it. And even if they don't like it that time, they might like it, like, the next time. I mean, I think that's the thing we have to sort of be open to as well. Like, getting out of short order cooking and doing all these sort of, like, individual meals, everyone eating at different times, and then it it, like, it compartmentalizes the experience, and it highlights food in different ways. So I think on a really practical level, those might be some helpful things that people can consider. So the bigger the big question you also had was, like, if you're a parent and you have your own things with food in your body, how do you model what your what your what you want for your children? In in other words, to not have those things. So like anything, I feel that we do need to look at ourselves as parents and ask ourselves, like, where are the places that we continue to struggle? What is the language we put out of that? What is the energy we put out about that? What is the messaging we put out about that? Whether it's like, it looks so shitty in this dress, or I ate that thing. Like, oh, I shouldn't have or what like, these things that I think we sometimes say that, again, we have sponges around us that absorb information.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
And we do have to be mindful of this. It is very, very important. I do think this is maybe the the piece of, like, eating disorders, you know, maybe having a genetic link perhaps, but they're also very environmentally conditioned too. Right? Like, our kids learn to understand so much about what we teach them, whether we know we're doing it directly or indirectly. And so I always encourage, like, if ever there's a parent who still feels unresolved about food or their body, that that you really seek out so much support and care around it because it's a very real thing, so that you can legitimately do differently by your children. Because I do think this is sort of like the intergenerational piece of eating disorders and disordered eating is that the messaging that we give our kids around food in their body is, like, part of what helps them to understand those pieces of themselves. And so, I think we have a responsibility as as parents to really work on that part of our lives.
Speaker 1
I wish we would have again, I keep saying this. Like, I wish I had this conversation, like, eighteen years ago. So way back in the day, I used to go to Cabbagetown boxing, and there was this dude, Johnny, and he would yell at you. And he may like, he demoralized you. He made you feel like crap. But, man, did I work hard during his class. So I've always been like, oh, I need someone to yell at me to work out. So I would go on the treadmill, like, in a flash forward, like, twenty five years. I'm on the treadmill, and I'm, like, grunting and groaning on, oh, fuck, Michelle. Go. Like, I'm, like, trying to go harder, faster, higher, more inclinedly. And I'm dying, but I'm yelling at myself and my and my son is thinks it's bizarre. And and he's like, what do you do? Why do you what what are you doing? And I'm like, this is how I'm motivating myself. And now he's down there sometimes doing the same thing, and I did that. Yeah. I'm so sorry, Finn. Oh my god.
Speaker 2
No. But here here here's the thing. Here's the thing. I I actually feel like as parents, we're gonna notice all these things we've done and haven't wanted to do, and that's not the ending. The ending is figuring out how do we repair that? How do we own that? How do we talk about that? Because that actually is the greatest correction that we can offer our kids. Like, I mess up all the time, not necessarily like, not with food in the body. Truly, I feel like that part of my parenting makes sense to me, but there's so many other ways that I mess up. We all do. Like, we're real people raising real people. Like, it it's not gonna go nicely all the time. But I think we have a responsibility as parents to really practice repair and really take ownership and responsibility and really teach about correction. So when we can talk about things, when we can talk about feelings, when we can bring things forward, when we can create safety, like, that's the greatest thing we can do as parents. Not not to be perfect parents. There's no such thing. Not to be not to be perfect eaters, not to be perfect anything, but to be real people who make mistakes, who show up, who try to repair, who take responsibility. Like, that's the work, I think. Mhmm.
Speaker 0
Well and I think too something that I've really struggled to learn, and I think it's finally still finally starting to sink in, is that repair is the is the thing. That's where the beauty is in any relationship. And I think if anything, Michelle, like, congratulations that you're willing to speak so freely on this podcast with with us and our listeners and say, oh, yeah. Fuck. And talk to Finn about it. And Yeah. Well, now I have
Speaker 1
to talk to Finn about it. Like, I haven't done that part yet, but I need some coaching, Kyla.
Speaker 0
You're selling you're selling yourself short as well because I know that you do. And I think I do. I do. That's part of this whole relationship with ourselves that we need to step back and look at, right, is we're striving to do all of the things and to be perfect outwardly. And we seem to think that repair is something to be avoided and negative, and it's not.
Speaker 2
No. It's really powerful. And it's ongoing. Like, I think the other thing to remember too is, like, we can't just talk about something once and think we talked about it.
Speaker 0
Despite the eye rolls from your kids and the head size and the, oh my god. Can you please just shut up again again?
Speaker 2
Totally. I wanna just keep talking about it. Yeah. Because it's just a reminder that, like, again, these things are normal. We can just keep talking about them. Right? Like, I think that's a very powerful thing when our when our children can learn that that they can come to you with things and and that there is space to to sort of be heard and not be judged. So as much as we possibly can to practice having those weird and awkward and important conversations. You know? I also should say too, I think there's a thing that happens with parents around, like, this language around food. Like, I would just really encourage everybody to just, just drop the language and just just, like, let's let's let food be food and
Speaker 0
put
Speaker 2
the food on the table that you really want your children to enjoy. I don't think that we should have a policy around, like, never having certain things in the house ever because as soon as your kids go to the store and see them or as soon as they go to their friends and do they have them, they will binge or they will hide those things or they will think they will need those things. So if we can set up just like there's a space for kinda all of it. We do it in sort of a balanced way. We really support, like, thoughtful nutrition for our kids. But there's nothing wrong with having an ice cream, and there's nothing wrong with having chips. Just, like, put them in a bowl and have them. You know? Like, that we can teach normalizing these sorts of things. Otherwise, it's sort of like putting, you know, know, a kid in a candy store that never gets candy. They just, like, think they want it all the time. And and then you're battling against that. I think there's like, some of the things that I see in my kids and their friends is, like, you really see the kids that don't have access to stuff, and then they come into my house and, like, they want all these things and, you know, they can't get enough of it versus, like, I think when we have some regulation with stuff, it's not a big deal. Like, it's not so shiny and new. And and then you'll see that your kids can maybe be without it, or, like, they don't have it or they have a bit and then they're done. They don't care. You know? Like, so I feel like the language and, like, the access to these things is also very powerful in terms of the messaging we're setting up.
Speaker 1
I love this. Thank you. I mean, I feel like we could keep talking for hours and hours and hours, but, wow. I feel like for today's conversation, I think we, like, have a given everyone a lot to think about. You've definitely given me a lot to think about. So, in conclusion, we have one question we'd love to ask all of our guests. And in your case, what is the one thing that you want every woman to know about eating disorders and disordered eating?
Speaker 2
I think I would want every woman to know that you truly can live safely in your body and with food even if you've never known that before, that it is absolutely possible to be in a relationship with food and to not just love, but to really like your body and to like who you are and really give over to all of those patterns of binge purge restricted is absolutely possible. I don't think the message of that is out there to the world. I think a lot of people think, like, I've always I've always done this, so you're gonna have it forever. It's never really gonna leave me. And and I like to bust all of that down and say, like, absolutely not. It is truly possible to feel safe and in like the food and your body and to not feel imprisoned. It really is.
Speaker 1
Mic drop.
Speaker 0
So good. Thank you.
Speaker 1
Wow. It's, it's been the conversation I definitely knew I needed, but it was so much more than I realized it was going to be. So thank you. Thank you so very much for all of this. And I think that there's a lot of women listening today that, can can relate and that this message will resonate. And, you've given such, so many things to think about, but also such a positive Mikael, help me out. I'm I'm losing my brain to,
Speaker 0
like Yeah. Just a positive message that that the this these challenges are opportunities. Yeah. Right?
Speaker 2
Well, thank you both. I mean, it's I feel so lucky to to have spoken to you both today, so it's really just been so nice for me too. And I appreciate you both being so honest. I think that's, like, the the first start. Right?
Speaker 0
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1
Next step is coming to your center off either on Monday. Okay. Thank you. I got lots of work to do.
Speaker 0
Thanks so much for listening to the show. If you like what you hear, please subscribe and write a review.
Speaker 1
So more women can find us and get a better understanding of what to expect in perimenopause.
Speaker 0
This information is not intended as medical advice. The intent of this information is to provide the listener with knowledge to support more efficient and effective communication with their medical provider.
